HC Deb 31 May 1911 vol 26 cc1067-9
Mr. GINNELL

asked the Prime Minister if he will say when he proposes, in preparation for his promised measure of full self-government for Ireland, to have the work of the Financial Relations Commission continued to the present time by a similar Commission, fairly representative of the two countries; whether Irish Members of this House will be consulted before the members of the Commission intended to represent Ireland are appointed; and, if no such Commission is to be set up, how it is proposed to ascertain the actual financial relations impartially as between the two countries?

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)

No such Commission is in contemplation. The Cabinet are taking such steps as they consider necessary to inform themselves on the subject.

Mr. GINNELL

asked the Prime Minister whether the Government assume the 2 millions net excessive taxes found by the majority of British members of the Financial Relations Commission to have been taken from Ireland in 1893–4 as an average annual excess which may justly be multiplied by the number of years since the Union to find the total excessive taxation of Ireland; whether any independent effort will be made to ascertain the actual excess in each year; and, if so, about what time will Members of this House he able to obtain the figures and the data on which they are based?

Mr. BIRRELL

I cannot give the hon. Member any information as to these points.

Mr. GINNELL

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that the excessive taxation of Ireland, as contrasted with that of Great Britain, was found as a fact by all the members of the Financial Relations Commission, and admitted by all the witnesses, including the Treasury witness, who alone suggested that excessive taxes were partially compensated for by extravagant expenditure on the government of Ireland; and whether any but Treasury witnesses are to be examined by the Treasury committee now investigating this subject for the benefit of the Cabinet?

Mr. BIRRELL

It is not the case that only Treasury witnesses will be examined.

Mr. GINNELL

May I ask the Prime Minister whether he is aware of the keen attention with which the Irish people are watching him in regard to this incident?

The HON. MEMBER

further asked the Prime Minister if, to allay anxiety in Ireland, he will say whether the Government adopt as established the findings of the majority of British members of the Financial Relations Commission, or whether the terms of reference are intended to enable the committee now sitting to go behind those findings?

Mr. BIRRELL

I must decline, as I have more than once declined, to discuss the matters referred to in this question. The duties of the committee have been sufficiently described in my previous answers.

Mr. GINNELL

asked, having regard to the uniform administration of old age pensions in Great Britain and Ireland in accordance with age and poverty, and the abnormal proportion of pensioners in Ireland in direct consequence of British rule, whether that consequence is treated by the Government as increasing or diminishing, or affecting in any way, the claim for full restitution of the excessive taxes found by all the members of the Financial Relations Commission?

Mr. BIRRELL

I am not prepared to discuss the causes or effects of the large proportion of old age pensioners in Ireland.