§ Mr. BOOTHasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the machinery of the National Insurance Bill for the collection of contributions is modelled on the German scheme; if he is aware that the German organisation is founded on universal conscription and complete police supervision; and whether he will propose other means to collect arrears under this Bill?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe contributions are collected by means of stamped cards, and arrears are recoverable from the employer in Germany as under the Bill. The process for recovery of arrears, however, is not the same under the Bill as under the German scheme, and the German system of contributions involving payments to three distinct funds is far more complicated than that adopted in the Bill. The system of administration through approved societies will make any Government organisation for identifying individuals quite unnecessary.
§ Mr. BOOTHMay I ask for the second part of my question to be dealt with a little more specifically? Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the German organisation and methods are founded on conscription and police supervision and police domiciliary visits?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGENo, I think my hon. Friend is incorrectly informed in regard to that. It really depends upon the action of the employers—upon the records and books that they keep. It is really a system of rechecking through the media of the employers and the cards presented by the employés.
§ Mr. BOOTHIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that there is a complete dossier in the possession of the German police, and that the German police officials regularly pay visits both to the employers and to private houses in order to see that the payments do not fall into arrear?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGENo, I do not.
Captain CRAIGMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman if, in keeping so much to the German example in this matter, he will also follow the German example in having some tariffs?
Mr. WILLIAM REDMONDIf the right hon. Gentleman is going to follow German precedents in this matter, will he also follow them in the matter of Home Rule?
§ Mr. BOOTHasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is prepared to introduce modifications into the National Insurance Bill whereby the proposed benefits may be secured by a direct State guarantee, or if he proposes that employers should be forced to subscribe moneys to a fund outside their control, and without any certainty that their workmen will actually receive benefits to which in the course of time they become entitled?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI am confident that, the provisions of the Bill, requiring frequent valuations and creating machinery for an early and effective dealing with any deficiency which may be revealed, will be sufficient to ensure the continuing soundness of the approved societies. A State guarantee, which would impair the sense of responsibility of the societies, would certainly not conduce to the effective working of the scheme. It might tend to encourage rather than check malingering.