§ Mr. HAROLD SMITHasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he proposes to take any steps to safeguard the interests of collectors of industrial insurance companies and collecting societies whose occupation will be jeopardised by the National Insurance Bill?
Mr. MONTAGUE BARLOWasked if he has any information as to the number of life insurance agents now being employed throughout the United Kingdom and in Lancashire, respectively; and whether he can indicate how they will be affected by the State Insurance Bill?
§ Viscount WOLMERasked whether, in making the appointments to carry out the administration of the National Insurance Bill when it becomes law, he will give priority to those agents of collecting societies or any other persons who can prove that they have been deprived of their employment as the result of that Bill being passed into law?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEAs I have already explained to the House more than once, there is not the slightest interference in the Bill with the work of the collecting societies or their agents.
§ Mr. HAROLD SMITHHas the right hon. Gentleman received, or will he receive, a deputation from the representatives of the societies?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEYes, I shall be very glad to receive any representations.
§ Mr. BYLESWould the right hon. Gentleman print the answer with the Votes in order that we may send it to our Constituents?
§ Mr. BOOTHIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the societies and companies in question take a different view?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEOn the contrary, I am quite sure that they do not take that view.
§ Mr. EYRES-MONSELLHas the right hon. Gentleman the number of life insurance agents?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGENo. If the hon. Member puts down a question I will inquire.
§ Mr. HORNERasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he could give the names and the approximate number of members in each of the societies in Ireland, registered or established under any Act of Parliament, having each at least 5,000 members, which would constitute approved societies for the arministration of benefits under the National Insurance Bill?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIt is impossible to say what societies in Ireland will be entitled to become approved societies by obtaining a membershop of 5,000 insured persons under the Bill.
Captain CRAIGWill the right hon. Gentleman take care that the Ancient Order of Hibernians is not included?
§ Mr. LEES SMITHasked whether a trade union which, if valued on the friendly society basis, would be found to have insufficient assets to meet all its prospective liabilities would be eligible for admission under the Insurance Bill as an approved society; and whether, if admitted, it would on valuation three years after admission, be required to adopt the financial basis of a friendly society?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEAn approved society will not be required by the Bill to hold an accumulated reserve against liabilities which are altogether outside the national insurance scheme, or to adopt for such liabilities, the financial basis of a friendly society. For the contributions and benefits provided for in the national scheme, however, it will be required to adopt the financial system contemplated by the Bill, and it will, under the financial Clauses of the Bill, be provided at the commencement with the reserves necessary for that purpose.
§ Mr. LEES SMITHWill trade unions be allowed to use for strike purposes the 4d. per week contributions provided by their own members?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIf the hon. Member refers to the 4d. per week levied under the Act they certainly will not be able to use that for such a purpose. It must be used for the purposes prescribed in the Act.
§ Mr. LEES SMITHHas the right hon. Gentleman taken into consideration the case of unions of unskilled labourers, which cannot raise much more than this sum, and would be prevented from using their contributions for strike purposes?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe hon. Member is quite wrong. They can raise any levies they like for strike purposes. But the sums levied compulsorily under this scheme, which involve a compulsory levy of 3d. from the employer and another 2d. from the State, surely should not be used for militant purposes against employers.
§ Mr. LEES SMITHasked whether, under the National Insurance Bill, a woman insured person suffering from scarlet fever would be entitled to sickness benefit of 7s. 6d. per week in cash and medical attendance in addition, whereas such a woman in childbirth would receive only maternity benefit of 30s, for four weeks without medical attendance?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIt is not the practice of friendly societies to give sick pay in maternity cases. Consequently the maternity benefit under the Bill (which covers medical attendance) must be regarded as a benefit additional to sickness benefit and not as a substitute for it.
§ Mr. CHIOZZA MONEYIs not this the most generous scheme of maternity insurance ever proposed?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThat is certainly the case. It is much more generous than any scheme of maternity benefit provided by the friendly societies; it is also more generous than any scheme in Germany or any other country.
§ Mr. HUNTasked whether the National Insurance Bill would go to Grand Committee or whether it would be discussed in Committee of the whole House?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI will refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for Colchester last Monday. The arrangements are still under consideration.
§ Mr. LEACHasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why he proposed to exclude from sick and disablement benefit those men and women who might be provided with board and lodging by their employers?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe intention of the scheme of National Health insurance is so far as practicable to provide insurance aganst those risks which are not already covered. A person provided with board and lodging by his employer is only excluded from sickness and disablement benefit so long as he is so provided. He is of course, very unlikely to be provided with board and lodging when he would otherwise be entitled to disablement benefit.
§ Mr. LEACHasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will explain to the House the kind of sickness which, being attributable to an insured person's own misconduct, disqualifies him from sickness or disablement benefit?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIf my hon. Friend will refer to Clause 13 (4) of the Bill he will see that this is a matter which an approved society will be left to regulate by its own rules. In the actual practice of friendly societies the most usual cases are those of venereal disease or bad cases of drunkenness.
§ Mr. CHARLES BATHURSTasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether medical benefit under the National Insurance Bill will include the attendance of a doctor in maternity cases if summoned in an emergency on the advice of a midwife acting under the rules of the Central Midwives Board?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe attendance of a doctor in maternity cases is provided for by the maternity benefit, not by the ordinary medical benefit.
§ Mr. CHARLES BATHURSTasked whether, in view of the provisions in the National Insurance Bill for the formation of local health committees, the Government proposed to abandon their Health Visitors Bill or to defer taking its subsequent stages until after the duties of the above committees have been defined by statute?
§ Mr. BURNSThe Prime Minister has asked me to reply to this question. The provisions of the National Insurance Bill do not touch the question of the appoint- 2145 ment by local authorities of health visitors, which is the subject dealt with in the Health Visitors Bill.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTWill there not be danger of overlapping if another local authority is appointed, and a different body is appointed under the National Insurance Bill?
§ Mr. BURNSNot under this Bill. The Health Visitors Bill deals with children under five years of age. The National Insurance Bill does not deal with persons so young as that.