§ Mr. HARRY LAWSONasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will lay upon the Table any reports made to him by the officers and actuaries of the great friendly societies in respect of invalidity assurance?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe officers and actuaries of the great friendly societies were not called upon to make reports upon the Health Insurance Scheme, though, of course, the persons from whom I received informal and confidential advice included many who held such positions.
§ Mr. JOYNSON-HICKSasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will arrange that a sufficient proportion of the officers in the Central Insurance Department shall be possessed of actuarial qualifications?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe qualifications of officers to be appointed to the Insurance Department will, of course, be considered in the light of their respective duties.
§ Mr. BRIDGEMANasked if, in calculating the wages of agricultural labourers in order to ascertain the contribution payable by their employers, an average of their wages throughout the year will be taken, or if the calculation will be based on each week separately?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe Bill contemplates the actual daily wage being taken, and makes no provision for averaging over a year.
§ Mr. HUNTasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he can give any estimate of the increased cost of production under the new scheme for providing against sickness and unemployment; and whether he proposes to tax competing imports to the same extent?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEGerman experience shows that organised provision for the health of the working classes produces increased efficiency. I have no doubt a similar result will be experienced when the demoralising anxieties of unemployment are mitigated. If, as I hope, these influences more than counterbalance the burden which we are asking employers to bear, the cost of production will be diminished rather than increased. I need hardly add that even if the contrary were the case the expedient which the hon. Member suggests would, in my opinion, do absolutely nothing for industry as a whole to counteract the tendency which the hon. Member fears.
§ Mr. HUNTMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman, as our own people are paying extra taxes, or may have to pay extra taxes, beyond what they already pay, why foreigners should pay nothing at all on their competing goods using the same market?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe hon. Member is raising a very wide question, which I certainly could not answer in the course of the thirty or forty seconds allowed to me for a reply. I think the premises of the hon. Gentleman are quite wrong. He is assuming that there will be new burdens on industry, whereas we consider this scheme a means of increasing the efficiency of the industry of the country.
§ Mr. HUNTMay I ask why it is that no hon. Gentleman on the other side has ever answered that question?
§ Mr. GEORGE TERRELLMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman if his estimate of the cost of production is founded on any figures or statistics, or simply on hopes and wishes?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEQuite the reverse. As I have stated to the House, I have made careful inquiry of all the great German employers—there being the best example of this kind of thing in Germany—and they all answer, without exception, that as a matter of wages insurance has paid them. They are paying twice as much as I am asking British employers to pay 1389 in this country. In spite of that they are supporting a scheme of increased payments.
§ Mr. CHARLES BATHURSTasked whether the effect of Part I. of the National Insurance Bill will be, as regards all their future members, to make the Manchester Unity of Oddfellows, the Ancient Order of Foresters, and the other great registered friendly societies, the mere channel for the organisation and distribution of the benefits provided for by the Bill?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEWe are asking the great friendly societies to undertake very heavy responsibilities under the National Insurance Bill, responsibilities which include by far the greater part of the functions which they now perform in connection with their existing work. In return we are offering them a high degree of autonomy. The State will only interfere for the purposes of collecting the contributions, holding the reserve funds, paying the State grants, and exercising a general supervision which will hardly be felt by a thoroughly well conducted society.