§ (1) The sum to be paid in respect of the local taxation (Customs and Excise) Duties into the Local Taxation Account, and the Local Taxation (Scotland) Account, and the Local Taxation (Ireland) Account respectively, under Sub-section (2) of Section seventeen of the Finance Act, 1907, shall, in the current and every subsequent financial year, instead of being a sum equal to the amount which would have been paid as the proceeds of those duties if that Act had not passed, be a sum equal to the amount of the English, Scottish, and Irish shares respectively of the proceeds of those duties 1682 during the financial year ending the thirty-first day of March, nineteen hundred and nine.
§ (2) There shall in addition be paid into each of the said Local Taxation Accounts during the current financial year out of the Consolidated Fund or the growing produce thereof, any amount by which the sum payable into that account in respect of the proceeds of the local taxation (Customs and Excise) Duties in the financial year ending the thirty-first day of March nineteen hundred and ten fell short of the sum which would have been so payable if this Act had been in force during that year, and any additional amount so paid into any Local Taxation Account shall be 1683 distributed and dealt with as if it were an addition to the sum paid into that account in respect of the local taxation (Customs and Excise) Duties.
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINI think it would be useless to renew the appeals which my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition made earlier in the proceedings to the Government to keep their pledges. The time for that has gone by. Their pledges are broken. They have acted throughout this sitting in defiance of the word which they offered across the floor of the House, and which was accepted by their opponents. That is a painful thing under any circumstances, but it is a very bad thing for the House of Commons, which, as we all know, depends upon the honourable keeping of such pledges in the business transactions which must occur. An hon. and gallant Gentleman makes an observation. Does he desire me to quote again the words of the Prime Minister, of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and of the Chancellor of the Duchy? He was probably sleeping when I quoted them before.
Captain CRAIGOn a point of Order. If it is any assistance to you, Mr. Chairman, and you will say the word, I shall put the whole Nationalist party out of the House.
§ The CHAIRMANThe hon. and gallant Member has put to me a point of Order, but it would make this a spot of disorder.
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINI do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman expects the Opposition to keep arrangements made across the floor of the House when the Government breaks such arrangements. We are coming very near another sitting in regard to which an arrangement was made. Do you expect the arrangement to be kept when you have broken your own? You will have only yourselves to blame if it is broken. It is because the House has sat now for seventeen and a half hours, and because we are coming very near the hour for another sitting, that I now beg leave to renew the Motion that you report Progress. It is quite intolerable that the House should be asked to discuss a measure of this importance under these conditions. The Home Secretary said earlier in the day that he would treat this Bill as the Bill of last Session. Does he know what the Bill of last Session was? I think there are not less than eight clauses in the Bill which did not appear in the Bill of last Session. One of my hon. Friends 1684 tells me, though I have been unable to get a copy of the Bill to make certain, that there were only five clauses in the Bill of last Session. And yet, on the pretence that this Bill was introduced last Session the Home Secretary considers that discussion is unnecessary now, and that the Bill can be rushed through in a single night. It is an outrage on Parliamentary procedure, a gross breach of faith—a breach of faith unparalleled in the long traditions of this House. As a protest on both grounds I propose, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."
§ [The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN (Mr. Whitley) in the Chair.]
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman has seen fit to repeat, in the broad light of day, the excited charges which were flung promiscuously and hastily across the floor of the House from various quarters in the small hours of the morning. As, however, the right hon. Gentleman has taken that course, I will, in the fewest possible sentences, say that we repudiate altogether the charge. We have not swerved or departed in any respect from the settled and fixed plan, or from the time-table on which the Government have been proceeding. It was the full expectation of the Prime Minister that we should make, not only the progress which we propose to make to-day, but that we should begin the discussion of the new clauses. What did the right hon. Gentleman say at question time? I have taken the utmost precaution in getting his exact words. He said: "In view of the very large number of new clauses—"
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINI ask the right hon. Gentleman whether that is the official report?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLHansard is not out yet. I have got this from the Central News. If afterwards it is proved to be inaccurate, then the arguments based on it will be subjected to certain revisions. This is what the Prime Minister said. This is the pledge: "In view of the very large number of new clauses put down, I hope the Committee will be prepared to sit a little later to-night." That is the clearest possible warning and indication that the Government intended to make substantial progress in the financial business they had in hand, and it was a warning couched as such warnings are in non-provocative terms that we should have to undergo and face the exertions of an all 1685 night sitting. But even if those words which I have read are held not accurately taken to foreshadow the couse whe have taken. I am certain I have only carried out the purpose and intention of the Prime Minister. That being so, how utterly absurd it is to suppose that they inhibit us from having taken this course. It is obvious and clear that the Prime Minister fully intended and contemplated our taking the course which we have taken to night, but he did not contemplate and could not foresee the great length of time which has been consumed on the discussion of the earlier clauses and on repeated motions for postponements. No one can say that this was not the settled plan on which the Government have been proceeding. It was fully in the intention of the Prime Minister, in calculating the time spent on this Bill already and the time left out of the six-and-a-half days which we all along stated would be allocated to the discussion of this measure—
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINNothing was said about six-and-a-half days when the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer promised us ample time for discussion.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLWeeks ago the Government announced that six-and-a-half days was the time that they allocated. On 10th February, exactly a month ago, the right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister said: "We have to prosecute the Bill through its various stages, and we propose to give for this purpose six-and-a-half days." That statement was accepted without the slightest challenge by anyone on that side of the House. When the right hon. Gentleman makes these charges I am bound to tell him that they leave us without any prick of conscience, and if they consider that they have a grievance because of the course which has been taken and in order to redress that grievance they depart from an undertaking they have made, and for which they have received value in the shape of extra time for discussion, I say that the complaint which we shall urge against them will be a complaint of greater body and substance than any which they can vociferate against us. I have been forced to address myself to that serious charge made with an extraordinary profusion of harsh language by various speakers on the other side of the House. Let me say one word on the Motion which the right hon. Gentleman has made, the Motion that we report Progress, and ask leave to sit again. Apart altogether from 1686 this particular wrangle about which the right hon. Gentleman has expressed himself in his most disagreeable form, the Debate especially in its later hours has been an exceedingly good Debate, and highly creditable to the House of Commons. I listened to a great deal of it, and my hon. Friends on this bench, who heard both the beginning and the latter part, tell me there is no doubt whatever that the discussion proceeding at five and six o'clock this morning was better than the discussion proceeding at five o'clock yesterday afternoon.
§ Earl WINTERTONThen why did you closure it?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe progress made has been good, but not unreasonable. If we were to agree to the Motion to report Progress now we should spoil a good night's work I therefore must point out that the clauses which remain to be discussed are not matters in which any great questions of substance can arise, and unless the Committee were vexed and desired to assume a very combative attitude upon them I have no doubt that could easily and speedily be disposed of. At any rate, we are bound to continue. I have now the OFFICIAL REPORT put in my hands as to what the Prime Minister said. The Report runs as follows:—
Mr. Balfour: There is no idea, of course, of the Committee stage finishing to-night?The Prime Minister: No, of course, in view of the very large number of Amendments and new Clauses, but I hope the Committee will be prepared to sit a little late; but there is no idea of finishing the Committee stage to-night.We have no chance or prospect of finishing to-night, and the greater part of our work still remains to be discharged. I regret very much to have to press such exertions upon the Committee, but I am sure everyone will agree that, having reached so far, we ought to arrive at a much more convenient stopping place.
§ Viscount CASTLEREAGHThe right hon. Gentleman's repudiation carried no weight whatever, especially as he read out the specific undertaking given by the Prime Minister yesterday afternoon. His bombastic utterances at 8.30 do not in the least excuse the gross error of judgment he committed at twelve o'clock last night. The right hon. Gentleman has apparently several conceptions of what a pledge means. If a pledge is made to a section of his followers behind him it means one thing, and is to be honourably discharged the next minute; but if it is made across the floor of the House and the right hon. 1687 Gentleman is assured by the Patronage Secretary that he has a majority at his back, that pledge means nothing whatsoever. The right hon. Gentleman will have little cause to look back to the first day in which he has led the House with feelings of pride, and if his eye is fixed on the place where he is now sitting, his chance of gaining that place is more remote than ever it was. If the right hon. Gentleman—and he has a section of the coalition with him—
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANI think we have had these speeches a good many times. I must request the Noble Lord to address himself to the present Motion, and find some new arguments in support of it.
§ Viscount CASTLEREAGHI must bow to your ruling, Sir, but I was answering the speech which the right hon. Gentleman made. We have discussed this measure from four o'clock yesterday afternoon, and from the words of the Prime Minister, which the right hon. Gentleman read, it is obvious that he had no intention that we should sit here until this time.
§ MASTER of ELIBANKI know the Prime Minister's mind on this matter, and he had every expectation that we should have an all-night sitting.
§ Earl WINTERTONWhy did he not say so?
§ Viscount CASTLEREAGHI hardly think the Prime Minister would thank the Patronage Secretary for the definition he has been good enough to give of his words. It is true we have passed one of the most important Clauses of the Bill. We have been called upon to discuss a measure closely affecting the local authorities of the country at a time when the Press were absent—that portion of the community which usually appeals to the right hon. Gentleman who is now leading the House. They were absent when the most important part of the Debate was carried on. The right hon. Gentleman has himself said that the Debate was of a very high order, and yet no portion of that Debate—or, at any rate, no correct report of the Debate—will reach our constituents. In adopting this course the right hon. Gentleman is prostituting the traditions of this House. As a protest against the position which the right hon. Gentleman has taken up as Leader of the House—a position which he will never keep—I support the Motion.
Colonel WILLIAMSI desire to remind the Home Secretary of what occurred a little earlier in the Session. He has used some very brave words about a pledge that was given. Not many weeks ago, when the Prime Minister was here, he was challenged as to the words of a pledge, and his reply followed the highest Parliamentary morality. He said it was not the pledge he intended to give, but if the Opposition understood it to be different he would certainly give way. That, Sir, was maintaining Parliamentary honour, and I commend the example to the Home Secretary.
§ Mr. STEEL-MAITLANDI only intend to address myself, strictly in order, to one or two of the remarks that have fallen from the Home Secretary. In the first place it is not a question so much—
§ Earl WINTERTONOn a point of Order. May I call your attention to the continued disorderly interruptions by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent (Mr. J. Ward) and the hon. Member for South Down (Mr. MacVeagh). They have carried on in a manner to render all sensible Debate impossible. [Interruption] The Patronage Secretary is very much mistaken—
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANWill the Noble Lord address the Chair?
§ Earl WINTERTONYes, I was about to. The Government having consented to be quiet for a moment, I will put my point of Order. I desire to ask you whether it is in order for the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent and the hon. Member for South Down to keep up a continuous fire of impertinent interruptions?
§ Mr. LEIF JONESOn a point of Order. Is the word "impertinent" in order?
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANIt is not an unparliamentary word.
§ Mr. WALTER REAHas not the word impertinent been ruled to be an unparliamentary word during this current sitting?
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINWas not the ruling of the Chairman to the effect that it was unparliamentary to call a Member of this House impertinent; but has not saying a statement was irrelevant or impertinent been repeatedly ruled in order?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLIt is not a fact that a distinction was drawn by the Chairman of Committees in regard to the sense in which the word impertinent might be 1689 used? That the sense of the word meaning rude was unparliamentary, but in the sense in which it was used by the Noble Lord was not unparliamentary.
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANI do not rule the expression as being out of order. I am sure the Noble Lord used it in its classical sense. As to the point of order raised by the Noble Lord, I would once more appeal to the House to leave to the Chair the power the House has reposed in the Chair, and which is not an easy one after all.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHOn the point of Order, as the Noble Lord drew my name into this matter, I may say that whether he used the word in a classical sense or not is a matter of indifference to me. Considering his record, I regard the abuse of the Noble Lord as the highest compliment.
§ Mr. STEEL-MAITLANDThe Home Secretary said that the plan of the Prime Minister had been understood by Members of the Opposition and that that was the reason— [Interruption.] I wonder if I may appeal to you, Mr. Whitley, for a little order. The Home Secretary stated that his reason for going on with the Debate last night and this morning was because the plan of the Prime Minister was well known on the Opposition benches. I do not say the right hon. Gentleman intended it to be so, but that was in flagrant contradiction of the actual facts. There is no question whatever that a large number of Members on these benches are genuinely interested in some of the financial questions—[Some interruption.] The hon. Member for Stoke again says "Hear, hear."
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANI think the hon. Member is rather disregarding my ruling in reviving incidents which I hoped were done with.
§ Mr. STEEL-MAITLANDI will endeavour to keep strictly to the point under discussion, but I hope you will help Members on this side of the House to be saved from interruptions.
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANIf the hon. Member will leave it to me I can assure him I will.
§ Mr. STEEL-MAITLANDThank you. The point was really this, that the following out of the plan as the Prime Minister 1690 intended was justified by the Home Secretary on the ground that it was understood by Members of the Opposition. Whether stated willingly or not, that is flagrantly in opposition to the actual facts. There are Members on this side who have a genuine interest in some of these questions of local finance who left the House on the genuine understanding that this Debate was not going to be prolonged beyond a comparatively early hour, and who, for that reason, have been debarred from taking any part in it. No one in this House would ever accuse the Prime Minister for a single second of ever withdrawing from any pledge he had given. The Prime Minister is always so fair, so far as the time of the House is concerned, that when his word has been misunderstood by this side of the House he has been willing to give way to the Opposition. I am sure that had the Prime Minister been here and understood that Members on this side of the House genuinely misunderstood the nature of the undertaking, he would have conceded to them their perfectly legitimate demand. Our quarrel with the Home Secretary is that although he has followed the letter of the Prime Minister's plan, at any rate he has grossly discredited its spirit by the manner in which he has treated this side of the House. The Home Secretary has stated that now the light of day has come in we might be led to consider facts apart from any exaggeration. May we ask the Home Secretary to carry out the same process in his own mind and consider the facts apart from any exaggeration. Did that mean till twelve or one o'clock or nine o'clock in the morning? The Home Secretary has said that the reason for refusing to report progress was the repeated postponements and delays in discussing the Clauses on this side of the House. May we remind him that had he shown something of the temper of the learned Solicitor-General earlier in the evening—I quite agree it is probably incapacity on the part of the Home Secretary to behave for one minute like the Solicitor-General did—but, at any rate, the difference in the effect and the amount of progress has been quite clear. The number of Clauses that were got through in a comparatively short time earlier in the sitting was out of all proportion to the progress made since. The rate of that progress and the character of the Debate has been due to nothing whatever but the way in which we have been treated by the gentleman who is now leading the House. He said he has refused to agree to report progress 1691 and continued to sit till morning because it was the settled policy of the Government. It is not the policy of the Government which should rule the present case; it is the promise of the Government to the Opposition. If there ever was a thoroughly bad handling of the finances of the country it has been the way in which it has been treated in this Revenue Bill during to-night. I do not know whether the Home Secretary thinks that by continuing the Debate he has afforded anything like a good example of what we are to expect from the new regime of
§ politics under his guidance, or of what we are to expect when this House, under the Parliament Bill, is to have absolutely uncontrolled finance, and we shall have a repetition of this ill-considered passing of important clauses.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLrose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
§ Question put, that "That the Question be now put."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 194; Noes, 121.
1693| Division No. 65.] | AYES. | [8.55 a.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Needham, Christopher T. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Goldstone, Frank | Neilson, Francis |
| Adamson, William | Guest, Major Hon. C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Nolan, Joseph |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Norman, Sir Henry |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbarton) | Gulland, John William | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Armitage, Robert | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hackett, John | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool, Scotland) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst (Leeds, N.) | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | O'Dowd, John |
| Barry, Redmond John (Tyrone, N.) | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | O'Grady, James |
| Barton, William | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | O'Kelly, Edward p. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Benn, W. W. (Tower Hamlets, St. Geo.) | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | O'Malley, William |
| Bentham, George Jackson | Haworth, Arthur A. | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Black, Arthur W. | Hayden, John Patrick | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Hayward, Evan | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Bowerman, Charles W. | Helme, Norval Watson | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Brace, William | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Henry, Sir Charles S. | Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek) |
| Brocklehurst, William B. | Higham, John Sharp | Pearson, Hon. Weetman H. M. |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Hinds, John | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Burke, E. Haviland. | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hudson, Walter | Pointer, Joseph |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Pollard, Sir George H. |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Illingworth, Percy H. | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Cawley, H. T. (Lancs., Hey wood) | Isaacs, Sir Rufus Daniel | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Chancellor, Henry George | John, Edward Thomas | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Johnson, William | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. | Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Primrose, Hon. Nell James |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Jones, Lei) Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Radford, George Heynes |
| Clough, William | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Clynes, John R. | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (T. H'mts., Stepney) | Raphael, Sir Herbert Henry |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Keating, Matthew | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Corbett, A. Cameron | Kellaway, Frederick George | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Kilbride, Denis | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E) |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | King, Joseph (Somerset, N.) | Richards, Thomas |
| Crawshay-Williams, Eliot | Lambert, George (Devon, Molton) | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Dawes, James Arthur | Law, Hugh A. | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Delany, William | Lawsen, Sir W.(Cumb'rrnd., Cockerm'th) | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs.) |
| Dewar, Sir J. A. | Leach, Charles | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Dillon, John | Levy, Sir Maurice | Robinson, Sidney |
| Doris, William | Lewis, John Herbert | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Duffy, William J. | Lundon, Thomas | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Lynch, Arthur Alfred | Rowlands, James |
| Edwards, Allen Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | St. Maur, Harold |
| Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | MacGhee, Richard | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Elibank, Rt. Hon. Master of | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Scott, A. M'Callum (Glasgow, Bridgeton) |
| Elverston, Harold | M'Callum, John M. | Seely, Col. Right Hon. J. E. B. |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Mason, David M. (Coventry) | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Masterman, C. F. G. | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Essex, Richard Walter | Mathias, Richard | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Falconer, James | Meagher, Michael | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Summers, James Woolley |
| Fenwick, Charles | Mond, Sir Alfred M. | Sutton, John E. |
| Ferens, Thomas Robinson | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Ffrench, Peter | Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Tannant, Harold John |
| Field, William | Mooney, John J. | Toulmin, George |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Morgan, George Hay | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Morrell, Philip | Uro, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Gelder, Sir William Alfred | Munro, Robert | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Glanville, Harold James | Murray, Capt. Hon. Arthur C. | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Wardle, George J. | Williams, John (Glamorgan) | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Webb, H. | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) | |
| Wedgwood, Josiah C. | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— Mr. Dudley Ward and Mr. Soares. |
| White, Patrick (Meath, North) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) | |
| Whyte, A. F. (Perth) | Wood, T. M'Kinnon (Glasgow) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Archer-Shee, Major Martin | Gibbs, George Abraham | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Gilmour, Captain John | Peel, Capt. R. F. (Woodbridge) |
| Astor, Waldorf | Goldsmith, Frank | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Gordon, John | Peto, Basil Edward |
| Balcarres, Lord | Grant, James Augustus | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Baring, Captain Hon. Guy Victor | Greene, Walter Raymond | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Barnston, Harry | Guinness, Hon. Walter Edward | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Rawson, Col. Richard H. |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen B, (Glouc. E.) | Hambro, Angus Vaidemar | Rice, Hon. Walter Fitz-Uryan |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford) | Ronaldshay, Earl of |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) | Rothschild, Lionel de |
| Benn, Ion Hamilton (Greenwich) | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Royds, Edmund |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy | Rutherford, W. (Liverpool, W. Derby) |
| Bird, Alfred | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Boscawen, Sackville T. Griffith. | Horne, William E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Boyton, James | Hunter, Sir Chas. Rodk. (Bath) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) | Spear, John Ward |
| Bull, Sir William James | Kebty-Fletcher, J. R. | Stanier, Beville |
| Burgoyne, Alan Hughes | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Kerry, Earl of | Staveley-Hill, Henry |
| Butcher, John George | Knight, Capt. Eric Ayshford | Steel-Maitland, A. D. |
| Carlile, Edward Hildred | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'm'ts., Mile End) | Stewart, Gershom |
| Cassel, Felix | Lewisham, Viscount | Terrell, George (Wilts, N. W.) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Cator, John | Long, Rt. Hon. Walter | Touche, George Alexander |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Mackinder, Halford J. | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J.-A. (Worc'r.) | Malcolm, Ian | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas | Weigall, Capt A. G. |
| Clive, Percy Archer | Moore, William | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Clyde, James Avon | Morpeth, Viscount | White, Major G. D. (Lancs, Southport) |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton) | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Courthope, George Loyd | Mount, William Arthur | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claude |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Neville, Reginald J. N. | Winterton, Earl |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Newman, John R. P. | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Newton, Harry Kottingham | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Dairymple, Viscount | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Doughty, Sir George | Nield, Herbert | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Norton-Griffiths, J. | Yate, Col. C. E. |
| Fell, Arthur | O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) | |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— Mr. H. W. Forster and Lord E. Talbot. |
| Fleming, Valentine | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."
1694§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 124; Noes, 201.
1697| Division No. 66.] | AYES. | [9.0 a.m. |
| Archer-Shee, Major M. | Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) |
| Ashley, Wilfred W. | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Worc'r) | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. |
| Astor, Waldorf | Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Hill-Wood, Samuel |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Clive, Percy Archer | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy |
| Balcarres, Lord | Clyde, James Avon | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) |
| Baring, Captain Hon. Guy Victor | Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Horne, W. E. (Surrey, Guildford) |
| Barnston, Harry | Courthope, George Loyd | Hunt, Rowland |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Hunter, Sir Charles Rodk. (Bath) |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen B. (Glouc., E.) | Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Kebty-Fletcher, J. R. |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Dairymple, Viscount | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr |
| Benn, Ion Hamilton (Grenwich) | Doughty, Sir George | Kerry, Earl of |
| Bennett Goldney, Francis | Eyres-Monsell, B. M. | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford |
| Bigland, Alfred | Fell, Arthur | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts., Mile End) |
| Bird, Alfred | Fisher, William Hayes | Lewisham, Viscount |
| Boscawen, Sackville T. Griffith. | Fleming, Valentine | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Boyton, James | Gibbs, George Abraham | Long, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Gilmour, Captain John | Mackinder, Halford J. |
| Bull, Sir William James | Goldsmith, Frank | Malcolm, Ian |
| Burgoyne, Alan Hughes | Gordon, John | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Grant, J. A. | Moore, William |
| Butcher, John George | Greene, Walter Raymond | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Carlile, Edward Hildred | Guinness, Hon. Walter Edward | Morrison-Bell, Major A. (Honiton) |
| Cassel, Felix | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Mount, William Archer |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Hambro, Angus Vaidemar | Neville, Reginald J. N. |
| Cator, John | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford) | Newman, John R. P. |
| Newton, Harry Kottingham | Rothschild, Lionel de | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | Royds, Edmund | Weigall, Capt. A. G. |
| Nield, Herbert | Rutherford, William (West Derby) | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Norton-Griffiths, J. | Salter, Arthur Clavell | White, Maj. G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) | Sanders, Robert Arthur | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. | Smith, Harold (Warrington) | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claude |
| Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | Spear, John Ward | Winterton, Earl |
| Peel, Capt. R. F. (Woodbridge) | Stanier, Beville | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Perkins, Walter Frank | Stanley, Major Hon. G. F. (Preston) | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Peto, Basil Edward | Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staffordshire) | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Pole-Carew, Sir R. | Steel-Maitland, A. D. | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Pollock, Ernest Murray | Stewart, Gershom | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Pryce-Jones, Col. E. | Talbot, Lord Edmund | |
| Quilter, William Eley C. | Terrell, George (Wilts, N. W.) | |
| Rawson, Colonel Richard H. | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— Mr. H. W. Forster and Mr. Pike Pease. |
| Rice, Hon. Walter Fitz-Uryan | Touche, George Alexander | |
| Ronaldshay, Earl of | Tullibardine, Marquess of | |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Neilson, Francis |
| Adamson, William | Goldstone, Frank | Nolan, Joseph |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Norman, Sir Henry |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Allen, Arthur Acland (Dumbartonshire) | Gulland, John William | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Armitage, Robert | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hockett, John | O'Dowd, John |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst (Leeds, N.) | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | O'Grady, James |
| Barry, Redmond John (Tyrone, N.) | Harmtworth, R. Leicester | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Barton, William | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | O'Malley, William |
| Beauchamp, Edward | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Benn, W. W. (T. H'mts., St. George) | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Bentham, George Jackson | Haworth, Arthur A. | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Black, Arthur W. | Hayden, John Patrick | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Hayward, Evan | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Bowerman, Charles W. | Helme, Norval Watson | Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek) |
| Brace, William | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Pearson, Hon. Weetman H. M. |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Henry, Sir Charles S. | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Brigg, Sir John | Higham, John Sharp | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) |
| Brocklehurst, William B. | Hinds, John | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Pointer, Joseph |
| Burke, E. Haviland. | Hudson, Walter | Pollard, Sir George H. |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) | Illingworth, Percy H. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Isaacs, Sir Rufus Daniel | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | John, Edward Thomas | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Cawley, H. T. (Lancs-, Haywood) | Johnson, William | Primrose, Hon. Neil James |
| Chancellor, Henry George | Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Radford, G. H. |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Jones, Leif (Rushcliffe) | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Raphael, Sir Herbert Henry |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (T. H'mts., Stepney) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Clough, William | Keating, Matthew | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Clynes, John R. | Kellaway, Frederick George | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone. E.) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Kilbride, Denis | Richards, Thomas |
| Corbett, A. Cameron | King, J. (Somerset, N.) | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Lambert, George (Devon, S. Molton) | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Crawshay-Williams, Eliot | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs.) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Lawson, Sir W.(Cumb'rld., Cockerm'th) | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth) | Leach, Charles | Robinson, Sydney |
| Dawes, J. A. | Levy, Sir Maurice | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Delany, William | Lewis, John Herbert | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Dewar, Sir J. A. | Logan, John William | Rowlands, James |
| Dillon, John | Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | St. Maur, Harold |
| Doris, William | Lundon, Thomas | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Duffy, William J. | Lynch, Arthur Alfred | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Schwann, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles E. |
| Edwards, Allen C. (Glamorgan, E.) | MacGhee, Richard | Scott, A. M'Callum (Glasgow, Bridgeton) |
| Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Seely, Col. Rt. Hon. J. E. B. |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Elibank, Rt. Hon. Master of | M'Callum, John M. | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Elverston, Harold | M'Laren, Walter S. B. (Ches., Crewe) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Masterman, C. F. G. | Spicer, Sir Albert |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Mathias, Richard | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Essex, Richard Walter | Meagher, Michael | Summers, James Woolley |
| Falconer, James | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Sutton, John E. |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Mond, Sir Alfred M. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Tennant, Harold John |
| Ferens, Thomas Robinson | Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Toulmin, George |
| Ffrench, Peter | Mooney, J. J. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Field,. William | Morgan, George Hay | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Morrell, Philip | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Munro, Robert | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Gelder, Sir William Alfred | Murray, Captain Hon. A. C. | Wardle, G. J. |
| Glanville, Harold James | Needham, Christopher T. | Wason, J. Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Webb, H. | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Wedgwood, Josiah C. | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) | |
| White, Sir George (Norfolk) | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— Mr. Dudley Ward and Mr. Soares. |
| White, Patrick (Meath, North) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) | |
| Whyte, Alexander F. (Perth) | Wood, T. M'Kinnon (Glasgow) |
§ Mr. JAMES HOPEMay I be allowed to move that the Clause be postponed?
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANI could only allow a few words in explanation of that suggestion.
§ Mr. JAMES HOPEI wish to point out that this Clause covers a good deal of important and contentious matter. I will mention one or two things which are contained in it. There is the whole connection between the consumption of whisky and the efficiency of higher education, which comes under this Clause. That raises, of course, many interesting topics both as to the benefits of education and the benefits of the consumption of whisky, and also as to the reasons why the consumption has diminished, and thereby education has suffered. Then there is the whole connection between the central exchequer and the finance of Scotland and Ireland. Circumstances looming on the horizon make that question a matter of great interest. Then there is the principle of stereotyping grants upon the standard of one particular year. That comes in also on the first Sub-section. Lastly, there is the question of the relative merits of the interception of local duties for local taxation account and payment being made out of the Consolidated Fund. There are six or seven topics of primary interest, and I do submit that it would be better to run through Clauses 12, 13, and 14. Then perhaps the Government will consent to putting off Clause 11, which is of much more complication. So we might end in comparative harmony, though not without a sense of bitterness and injustice.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe bon. Gentleman has asked us to postpone this Clause 11. I am willing to admit frankly that there are more points of substance in Clause 11 than in the other three clauses. I welcome very much the note in his remarks, and I should be very anxious, indeed, to relieve the House from the heavy labours they have endured so long. If it would meet the view of bon. Gentlemen opposite, I would assent to the postponing of Clause 11 on the understanding that the other three clauses were disposed of in a reasonable time.
§ Mr. JAMES HOPEI made no offer whatever. I am not authorised to do so. But I do suggest that it would be for the general convenience that there should be this postponement.
§ Mr. CHIOZZA MONEYI think the hon. Member has forgotten the former arguments addressed by his Friends to the Committee. When we approached Clause 10 we were told that that was the important Clause, and that if the Government would postpone the consideration of that, the remainder was not of importance. Now the same argument is used in regard to Clause 11. I am driven to the conclusion that there is not as much sincerity in his remarks as he would suggest.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLrose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 207; Noes, 125.
1701| Division No. 67.] | AYES. | [9.15 a.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) | Brocklehurst, William B. | Crawthay-Williams, Eliot |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Brunner, John F. L. | Crumley, Patrick |
| Adamson, William | Bryce, John Annan | Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth) |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Burke, E. Haviland. | Dawes, James Arthur |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Burnt, Rt. Hen. John | Delany, William |
| Allen, Arthur Acland (Dumbartonshire) | Buxton, Rt. Hon. S. C. (Poplar) | Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas |
| Armitage, Robert | Byles, Wiliam Pollard | Dewar, Sir J. A. (Inverness-Shire) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Doris, William |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst (Leeds, N.) | Cawley, H. T. (Lance., Heywood) | Duffy, William J. |
| Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.) | Cawley, Sir Fredk. (Prestwich) | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) |
| Barton, William | Chancellor, Henry George | Edwards, Allen C. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Beauchamp, Edward | Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) |
| Benn, W. W. (Tower Hamlets, S. Geo.) | Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. | Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) |
| Bentham, George Jackson | Clancy, John Joseph | Elibank, Rt. Hon. Master of |
| Black, Arthur W. | Clough, William | Elverston, Harold |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Clynes, John R. | Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) |
| Bowerman, Charles W. | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wrexford, N.) |
| Brace, William | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Essex, Richard Walter |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Falconer, James |
| Brigg, Sir John | Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Farrell, James Patrick |
| Fenwick, Charles | MacGhee, Richard | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone. E.) |
| Ferens, Thomas Robinson | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Richards, Thomas |
| Ffrench, Peter | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Field, William | M'Callum, John M. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Fitzgibbon, John | M'Laren, Walter S. B. (Ches., Crewe) | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Marks, George Croydon | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs.) |
| Glanville, Harold James | Masterman, C. F. G. | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Mathias, Richard | Robinson, Sydney |
| Goldstone, Frank | Meagher, Michael | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Guest, Major Hon. C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Mond, Sir Alfred Moritz | Rowlands, James |
| Hackett, John | Money, L. G. Chiozza | St. Maur, Harold |
| Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Mooney, John J. | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Harmsworth, R. Leicester | Morgan, George Hay | Schwann, Sir Charles E. |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Morrell, Philip | Scott, A. M'Callum (Glasgow, Bridgeton) |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Munro, Robert | Seely, Col., Rt. Hon. J. E. B. |
| Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Murray, Capt. Hon. Arthur C. | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Haworth, Arthur A. | Needham, Christopher T. | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Neilson, Francis | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) |
| Hayward, Evan | Nolan, Joseph | Soares, Ernest Joseph |
| Helme, Norval Watson | Norman, Sir Henry | Spicer, Sir Albert |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Henry, Sir Charles S. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Summers, James Woolley |
| Higham, John Sharp | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Sutton, John E. |
| Hinds, John | O'Dowd, John | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | O'Grady, James | Tennant, Harold John |
| Hudson, Walter | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Toulmin, George |
| Hughes, Spencer Leigh | O'Malley, William | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Isaacs, Sir Rufus Daniel | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Johnson, William | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent) |
| Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tidvil) | O'Sullivan, Timothy | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| Jones, Leif Stratton (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Palmer, Godfrey Mark | Wardle, George J. |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Parker, James (Halifax) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Jones, W. S. Glyn. (T'w'r H'mts, Stepney) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek) | Webb, H. |
| Keating, Matthew | Pearson, Hon. Weetman H. M. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Kellaway, Frederick George | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) | White, Sir George (Norfolk) |
| Kilbride, Denis | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| King, Joseph (Somerset, North) | Pirie, Duncan V. | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Pointer, Joseph | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Law, Hugh A (Donegal, W.) | Pollard, Sir George H. | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Lawson, Sir W.(Cumb'rld., Cockerm'th) | Power, Patrick Joseph | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Leach, Charles | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Levy, Sir Maurice | Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.) | Wood, T. M'Kinnon (Glasgow) |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Logan, John William | Primrose, Hon. Neil James | |
| Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Radford, George Heynes | |
| Lundon, Thomas | Raffan, peter Wilson | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— Mr. Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Lynch, Arthur Alfred | Raphael, Herbert Henry | |
| Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Archer-Shee, Major Martin | Dairymple, Viscount | Lewisham, Viscount |
| Ashley, Wilfred W. | Doughty, Sir George | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Astor, Waldorf | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers. | Long, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Baird, J. L. | Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Mackinder, Halford J. |
| Balcarres, Lord | Fell, Arthur | Malcolm, Ian |
| Barnston, Harry | Fisher, W. Hayes | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas |
| Barrie, Hugh T. (Londonderry) | Fleming, Valentine | Moore, William |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen B. (Glouc.) | Forster, Henry William | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Gilmour, Captain John | Morrison-Bill, Major A. C. (Honiton) |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Goldsmith, Frank | Mount, William Arthur |
| Benn, Ion Hamilton (Greenwich) | Gordon, John | Neville, Reginald J. N. |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Newdegate, F. A. |
| Bigland, Alfred | Grant, J. A. | Newman, John R. P. |
| Bird, Alfred | Greene, W. R | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
| Boscawn, Sackville T. Griffith. | Guinness, Hon. Walter Edward | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Boyton, James | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Nield, Herbert |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Hambro, Angus Vaidemar | Norton-Griffiths, J. (Wednesbury) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford) | O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Henderson, Major H. (Abingdon) | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. |
| Carlile, Edward Hildred | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William |
| Cassel, Felix | Hill, Sir Clement L. (Shrewsbury) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Peel, Capt. R. F. (Woodbridge) |
| Cator, John | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Peto, Basil Edward |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Wor'cr.) | Horne, Wm. E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Hunt, Rowland | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Clive, Percy Archer | Hunter, Sir Charles Rodk. (Bath) | Pryce-Jones. Col. E. (Montgom'y B'ghs) |
| Clyde, James Avon | Ingleby, Holcombe | Quilter, William Eley C. |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) | Rawson, Col. Richard H. |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E) | Kebty-Fletcher, J. R. | Rice, Hon. Walter Fitz-Uryan |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Ronaldshay, Earl of |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Kerry, Earl of | Rothschild, Lionel de |
| Cripps, Sir Charles Alfred | Knight, Capt Erie Ayshford | Royds, Edmund |
| Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) | Terrell, George (Wilts, N. W.) | Winterton, Earl |
| Salter, Arthur Clavell | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Sanders, Robert Arthur | Touche, George Alexander | Wood, Hon. E. F. G. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Smith, Harold (Warrington) | Tullibardine, Marquess of | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Spear, John Ward | Walker, Col. William Hall | Worthington-Evans, L. (Colchester) |
| Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) | Weigall, Capt. A. G. | Yate, Col. C. E |
| Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staffordshire) | Wheler, Granville C. H. | |
| Steel-Maitland, A. D. | White, Maj. G. D. (Lanc, Southport) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— Mr. Gibbs and Mr. Courthope. |
| Stewart, Gershom | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) | |
| Talbot, Lord Edmund | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claude |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the Clause be postponed."
1702§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 129; Noes, 211.
1703| Division No. 68.] | AYES. | [9.25 a.m. |
| Archer-Shee, Major M. | Goldsmith, Frank | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Gordon, John | Peel, Capt. R. F. (Woodbridge) |
| Astor, Waldorf | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Grant, J. A. | Peto, Basil Edward |
| Balcarres, Lord | Greene, Walter Raymond | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Barnston, H. | Guinness, Hon. Walter Edward | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen B. (Glouc., E.) | Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Quilter, William Eley C. |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hardy, Laurence | Rawson, Col. Richard H. |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) | Rice, Hon. Walter Fitz-Uryan |
| Benn, Ion Hamilton (Greenwich) | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. | Ronaldshay, Earl of |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Rothschild, Lionel de |
| Bigland, Alfred | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Royds, Edmund |
| Bird, Alfred | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy | Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) |
| Boscawen, Col. A. S. T. Griffith. | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
| Boyton, James | Horne, Wm. E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Hunt, Rowland | Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton) |
| Bull, Sir William James | Hunter, Sir Charles Rodk. (Bath) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Burgoyne, Alan Hughes | Ingleby, Holcombe | Spear, John Ward |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Carlile, Edward Hildred | Kebty-Fletcher, J. R. | Staveley-Hill, Henry |
| Cassel, Felix | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Steel-Maitland, A. D. |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Kerry, Earl of | Stewart, Gershom |
| Cator, John | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Lewisham, Viscount | Terrell, George (Wilts, N. W.) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Wore.) | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Long, Rt. Hon. Walter | Touche, George Alexander |
| Clive, Percy Archer | Mackinder, Halford J | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Clyde, James Avon | Malcolm, Ian | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas | Weigall, Capt. A. G. |
| Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Moore, William | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Morpeth, Viscount | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian | Morrison-Boll, Major A. C. (Honiton) | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Cripps, Sir Charles Alfred | Mount, William Arthur | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claude |
| Dairymple, Viscount | Neville, Reginald J. N. | Winterton, Earl |
| Doughty, Sir George | Newdegate, F. A. | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers. | Newman, John R. P. | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Newton, Harry Kottingham | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Fell, Arthur | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Nield, Herbert | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Fleming, Valentine | Norton-Griffiths, J. | Yerburgh, Robert |
| Forster, Henry William | O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid) | |
| Gibbs, George Abraham | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— Mr. Courthope and Mr. S. Roberts. |
| Gilmour, Captain John | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) | Brocklehurst, William B. | Crumley, Patrick |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Brunner, John F. L. | Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth) |
| Adamson, William | Bryce, J. Annan | Dawes, J. A. |
| Addison, Dr. C. | Burke, E. Haviland. | Delany, William |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Denman, Hon. R. D. |
| Allen, A. A. (Dumbartonshire) | Buxton, Rt. Hon. S. C. (Poplar) | Dewar, Sir J. A. |
| Armitage, Robert | Byles, William Pollard | Dillon, John |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Doris, William |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst (Leeds, N.) | Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Duffy, William J. |
| Barry, Redmond John (Tyrone, N.) | Chancellor, Henry George | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) |
| Barton, William | Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Edwards, Allen C. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Beauchamp, Edward | Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) |
| Benn, W. (T. Hints., St. George) | Clancy, John Joseph | Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) |
| Bentham, G. J. | Clough, William | Eli bank, Rt. Hen. Master of |
| Black, Arthur W. | Clynes, John R. | Elverston, Harold |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Corbett, A. Cameron | Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) |
| Brace, William | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Essex, Richard Walter |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Falconer, James |
| Brigg, Sir John | Crawshay-Williams, Eliot | Farrell, James Patrick |
| Fenwick, Charles | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Ferens, Thomas Robinson | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Ffrench, Peter | M'Callum, John M. | Richards, Thomas |
| Field, William | M'Laren, Walter S. B. (Ches., Crewe) | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Marks, George Croydon | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Masterman, C. F. G. | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Glanville, Harold James | Mathias, Richard | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs.) |
| Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Meagher, Michael | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Goldstone, Frank | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Robinson, Sidney |
| Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Mond, Sir Alfred | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Money, L. G. Chiozza | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Montagu, Hon. E. S. | Rowlands, James |
| Hackett, John | Mooney, John J. | St. Maur, Harold |
| Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Morgan, George Hay | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Morrell, Philip | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Harmsworth, R. Leicester | Munro, Robert | Schwann, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles E. |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Murray, Capt. Hon. Arthur C. | Scott, A. M'Callum (Glasgow, Bridgeton) |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.) | Needham, Christopher J. | Seely, Col., Rt. Hon. J. E. B. |
| Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Neilson, Francis | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Haworth, Arthur A. | Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncaster) | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Nolan, Joseph | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Hayward, Evan | Norman, Sir Henry | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Helme, Norval Watson | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Soares, Ernest |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Spicer, Sir Albert |
| Henry, Sir Charles S. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Higham, John Sharp | O'Dowd, John | Summers, James Wooley |
| Hinds, John | O'Grady, James | Sutton, John E |
| Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Hudson, Walter | O'Malley, William | Tennant, Harold John |
| Hughes, Spencer Leigh | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Toulmin, George |
| Isaacs, Sir Rufus Daniel | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Johnson, W. | O'Sullivan, Timothy | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Palmer, Godfrey Mark | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Parker, James (Halifax) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| Janes, William (Carnarvonshire) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek) | Wardle, George J. |
| Jones, W. S. Glyn- (T. H'mts, Stepney) | Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Keating, Matthew | Pearson, Hon. Weetman H. M. | Webb, H. |
| Kellaway, Frederick George | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Kilbride, Denis | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) | White, Sir George (Norfolk) |
| King, Joseph (Somerset, North) | Pirie, Duncan Vernon | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Pointer, Joseph | Whyte, A. F. |
| Law, Hugh A. | Pollard, Sir George H. | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Lawson, Sir W.(Cumb'rld., Cockerm'th) | Power, Patrick Joseph | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Leach, Charles | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Williamson, Sir A. |
| Levy, Sir Maurice | Price, Sir Robert J. | Wilson, Hon. G. G (Hull, W.) |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Logan, John William | Primrose, Hon. Nell James | Wood, T. M'Kinnon (Glasgow) |
| Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Radford, George Heynes | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Lundon, Thomas | Raffan, Peter Wilson | |
| Lynch, Arthur Alfred | Raphael, Sir Herbert Henry | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— Mr. Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Rea, Waiter Russell (Scarborough) | |
| MacGhee, Richard |
Question, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again," put, and agreed to.
§ Mr. JAMES HOPEI beg to move in Sub-section (1) to leave out the words "and the Local Taxation (Scotland) Account."
I do it for this reason, that the relations between the Exchequer and the finances of Scotland and Ireland undoubtedly want revising. Recent legislation has undoubtedly improved the position both of Scotland and Ireland at the expense of the Exchequer, and I do not think that we should continue the present system of allowing these funds to go to these local authorities until the whole relations between the Exchequer and Scotland and Ireland have been inquired into. Some years ago an independent committee sat at Edinburgh, under Mr. Jamieson, and came to the conclusion, though Scotsmen themselves, that Scotland was treated generously by the Exchequer, and they had nothing more to ask for. I think the trend of more recent legislation has turned that generosity into lavishness, 1704 and I do not think we should extend and increase the payments under this Section until the whole matter has been gone into. I have to learn the views of the Treasury on the point.
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEWhether the hon. Gentleman approves or does not approve of the proposals we make in this Clause, at all events it is a symmetrical proposal which deals on precisely similar terms with the local taxation account of the three countries. The proposal of the hon. Gentleman would isolate Scotland and render our treatment of her entirely different from that of the two other countries. For that reason I am afraid I cannot accept the Amendment.
§ Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause," put, and negatived.
§ Sir ALFRED CRIPPSmoved in Subsection (1) to leave out the words "and every subsequent financial."
1705 This is really a matter of very important principle. We have to deal with the future Grant paid out of the Exchequer to the Local Taxation account. The proposal is not only for the current year but for every subsequent year, but the amount shall annually be the same as the amount paid into that account in the year 1909. In the first place it is extremely unfair to stereotype the account at all. That account ought to grow in proportion to the amount which comes from the taxes. It is quite contrary to principle to determine a matter of this sort, not only for one year but for every subsequent year. The Secretary to the Treasury said 1909 would be fatal to the local authorities, because it would be higher than the amount in 1910. Well, to a certain extent that is true, because 1910 was an exceedingly low year. But if you go back behind 1909 to the last five or six, or even ten years, I believe in every case the amount was larger than it was in 1909. Therefore, what you are really doing is taking a comparitively low year when the amount paid to the local authorities was far below the average—as a matter of fact about £100,000 below the average—you take a low year and say, so far as the local authorities are concerned, their payments are to be limited to that amount. Surely we should deal fairly with the local authorities. They have regulated their expenditure in reliance on the fact that there has been a constant growth as regards the amount payable to them out of the local taxation account. It is notorious in connection with that that local expenditure is growing, and has been growing, for years. I do not believe that tendency can be arrested. There are a large number of important questions local authorities have to deal with, and so far from the Treasury seeking to starve them, the Treasury ought to treat them in what I would call a generous fashion. There is no reason for taking a low year and stereotyping a low amount for every year in the future. I believe that earlier in the discussions a concession was made, and the words were inserted—"until Parliament otherwise determines." Of course, these words would not weaken the Amendment. They leave the matter over for subsequent discussion. I think the words of my Amendment would be better because, if the Clause stands as it is at present, it would be a determination by Parliament that these amounts should be limited, and unfairly limited, not only for the current year, but for every subsequent year.
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe proposal which the hon. and learned Gentleman has made to the Committee would have the effect of limiting the arrangement which is made under this Bill to exactly three weeks. If the hon. and learned Gentleman and the Committee will consider that matter they will see that in those circumstances it would hardly be worth while asking Parliament to make this arrangement at all. We have, as the hon. and learned Gentleman has pointed out, taken a year which is perhaps not the most favourable, but which is certainly not the least favourable. The revenue payable in respect of that year—not payable in that year, but in respect of that year—was swollen unquestionably by circumstances into which I need not now go. Having fixed on that year, which has yielded a more satisfactory revenue for educational purposes than years which preceded it, I fear we must adhere to the form of the Clause.
§ Mr. LONGIf the Amendment were intended in the sense in which the right hon. Gentleman has interpreted it the effect would, no doubt, be to bring the proposal in the Bill to an end in an untimely manner. What we want is to secure the same result as we sought to bring about in regard to Clause 10. That was an injury you were doing; this is an insult you are adding to the injury. Under the previous Clause you have repealed your own legislation, and have taken away what you yourselves admitted with a great flourish of trumpets to be the property of the local authorities. In this Clause you are stereotyping your payment and selecting a year which is singularly unfavourable. Having had some experience of this local taxation question as President of the Local Government Board, I venture to say that the State, when it makes a contribution in aid of local rates has always made it a practice to take an average of years. The State never yet took a single year, and it certainly would not take a year which was the lowest since 1894, with the exception of last year. Let the Committee realise the injustice which is being done here. If hon. Members Mad the figures before them they would realise that they are doing a grave injustice. Consider the question of London alone. London suffers enormously, because certain payments were stereotyped, not by grants out of the Exchequer, but in the distribution between local authorities and others. And that very stereotyping did London enormous 1707 injury, because, while the expenditure which London is called on to bear, as a great centre of local government, is constantly increasing—and properly so—the contribution which the State makes in respect of it remains at a fixed sum. I defy anybody to show there is any justice in a plan of that kind. The State is asked to come forward and say to the local authorities: "We accept responsibility for certain expenditure, which in our judgment should be regarded as national, and not local. In order to meet that, for want of a better system we make you a block grant."
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMANThis is not in order on the Clause. It has been pointed out that the particular effect of this Amendment would be to limit the operation of the Clause to a period ending at the close of the current financial year. Therefore I should confine the discussion to the alleged limits within which the Clause would operate.
§ Mr. LONGI should not for a moment wish to clash any ruling of yours, Sir. Although I admit the phraseology of this Amendment would not have the effect we desire, we do desire to prevent the Government making statutory and continuous a system to which we object, and which we think should be limited as the proposal in Clause 10 has been to some degree limited by the insertion of the words "until Parliament otherwise determines." This proposal without amendment of some kind will make permanent an injustice which ought certainly to be remedied within a brief period of time. I was in hopes that the Government—who, I do not think can contest the justice of our cause—might be prepared to insert some words which, if they would not redress our grievance, would at all events mitigate it. Increasing Grants-in-Aid are made by the Imperial Exchequer to share with the local authorities those burdens, and great danger attached to the selection of one particular year and then stereotyping that year. Once you take that line it is natural that Parliament is reluctant to open up the whole question and find a new method. Though London and many of our great towns have complained bitterly, no serious attempt has been made to secure a better basis of distribution. Therefore, if the Government are not prepared to produce a new scheme, I respectfully submit they should not be allowed to perpetuate a system which is a bad one, and if they are going 1708 to perpetuate it should take the average of a number of years. I submit also that whatever arrangement they make now should be of a purely temporary character, so that the hands of Parliament should be free to deal with this question untrammelled in the future.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI rise for the purpose of moving, Sir, that you report Progress and ask leave to sit again. I frankly admit we have not made quite the progress which the Government had hoped, and we have not made the progress which the Prime Minister expected we should make, but we have made very substantial progress, which well repays the exertions which Members on all sides have been put to. If we were to continue to discuss these Amendments without breaking off within a reasonable period there would be very unusual embarrassment because of the printing of the Order Paper for the Friday sitting, and we should run the risk of sacrificing the Friday sitting, which would be a very unfortunate and untoward occurrence, and which would lose us at a stroke the advantages for which we have toiled so long in the progress of public business. In these circumstances, having regard to the great importance which we attach to the Supplementary Estimates which are down for the Friday sitting, I respectfully beg to move that you do report Progress and ask leave to sit again.
§ Mr. LONGI do not propose to oppose the Motion. It is a proof that the right hon. Gentleman has taken to heart the saying "It is never too late to mend," and as there is abundant room for improvement I am glad to see him seizing the opportunity. I, for one, rejoice to come to this conclusion, and with this relief from a very arduous, a not altogether satisfactory, but not unprofitable, task.
§ Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Monday next [13th March.]
§ And it being after Half-past Eleven of the clock upon Thursday evening, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
§ Adjourned at five minutes before Ten a.m., Friday, 10th March.