§ Mr. WILLIAM O'BRIENasked whether Mr. D. O'Carroll, pensions officer for the Castlecomer union, who issued an appeal to the old age pensioners of his district for subscriptions to the fund of the Irish Parliamentary party on the ground that it was they who obtained the Old Age Pensions Act, and publicly sent the subscriptions thus obtained to the treasurers of the Parliamentary Fund, was paid out of Treasury funds, although locally appointed, and acted under the control of the Local Government Board; had the Government no power of restraining pensions officers paid by them from turning their position to partisan electioneering account; and, if not, was it open to pensions officers of different politics to Mr. O'Carroll's to exercise similar pressure upon old age pensioners in the interest of their own parties?
§ Mr. MEAGHERWhat authority has the hon. Member for making grave insinuations against a public officer?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe person referred to in the question is not a pension officer but a clerk to a local pension committee, appointed and dismissable by the committee. He is paid out of the amount allowed to the committee for expenses 1282 under Section 10 (4) of the Old Age Pensions Act, but is not subject to the disciplinary control either of the Treasury or the Local Government Board, and the question of withholding the whole or a part of the committee's allowance for expenses would only arise in the event of the committee or of its officers neglecting to discharge the duties out of which the expenditure which it is designed to cover arises. In cases of improper conduct by clerks to pension committees, it rests with the committees to whom they are responsible to take such action as may be necessary.
§ Mr. W. O'BRIENHas the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for whose heavy labours we make every allowance, expressed no word of censure upon this particularly cruel form of official pressure on these poor people by an official who is now avowedly paid out of Treasury funds?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe whole point of my answer is that the official is not under the control of the Treasury in any way. He is appointed and dismissable by the local pensions committee.
§ Mr. T. HEALYWould the right hon. Gentleman allow without censure old age pensioners in England to have sums deducted from their pensions in the interests of the Primrose League by a Tory official?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEAs far as I am able to ascertain, no sums have been deducted from the pensioners' payments. If pensioners out of their payments choose to make voluntary payments we have no control either in England or in Ireland.
§ Mr. W. O'BRIENWhat is the reply to the last part of the question on the Paper?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI have already pointed out that we have no disciplinary power of any sort or kind over officials of the local pensions committees; therefore we have no power in this or any similar case.
§ Viscount WOLMERWill the right hon. Gentleman direct the attention of the Gladstone League to this matter?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe Gladstone League deals with real cases of intimidation.
§ Mr. O'BRIENIn reference to the reply of the right hon. Gentleman and his remarks as to cases of real intimidation, is it only when Irishmen are members of the 1283 All for Ireland League that the Treasury can exercise any control whatever over their own payments?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI can only remark that it does not appear that this case was one of real intimidation.