HC Deb 14 July 1911 vol 28 cc646-7

Order for Second Reading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of EDUCATION (Mr. Trevelyan)

I do not think there is anything in the Bill which is objected to generally in the House. Its provisions are quite small and unimportant matters connected with administration, but there is one Clause which I understand there is some objection taken to—Clause 4. We are perfectly ready in regard to that Clause to satisfy objectors to it who think it is too wide an extension, and although I am very anxious to get it I would not press it if I could not satisfy the objections which are raised.

Sir FREDERICK BANBURY

I have had some private conversation with the hon. Gentleman, and I understand that he will in Committee endeavour to meet my objections. I am very anxious, if possible, to come to an agreement with him. I understand that if he cannot, he will drop the Clause.

Sir HILDRED CARLILE

I should like to have some further particulars with reference to Clause 3. I find that Clause deals with by-laws under which the architectural arrangements as to the disposition and placing of schools are to be removed practically out of the control of the local authority. They will have comparatively no control in these matters, because the Board of Education will be able to override any decision of a local authority. That does not seem a desirable arrangement, because the local authority and the people in the locality, who have to pay out of the rates for the erection of buildings, have the buildings continually before them, and if the plans are not satisfactory to them, then clearly they have an eyesore in their midst over which they have no control. Before we pass the Second Reading of the Bill I think the hon. Gentleman should give us some sound reason why it should be necessary to take statutory powers to override the decision of the local authority in the matter.

Mr. TREVELYAN

I should like to tell the hon. Gentleman what the origin of this Clause is. We have been making in- quiries through a Departmental Committee as to how local authorities could cheapen buildings for schools, and it was found from the evidence that in certain districts the local authorities were working under antiquated by-laws, which resulted in plans having to be made for buildings which were very much more expensive than the education authority or the Board of Education considered necessary. The local authorities will always, of course, be able, in the interest of sanitation, or any other sufficient reason, to insist on what the plans should be where there are antiquated by-laws, which really cause unnecessary local expense. The Clause will enable the local authority to go past these antiquated by-laws. There is no objection on the part of the local authorities that I am aware of.

Sir HILDRED CARLILE

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether the local authority will be consulted, not only upon the sanitary arrangements, but the esthetic arrangements to be made.

Mr. TREVELYAN

In most cases we do not get the plans until they have come before the local authority.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House for Monday next.