HC Deb 06 July 1911 vol 27 cc1338-9
Mr. RUPERT GWYNNE

asked whether, an agricultural labourer earning only 15s. a week, and entitled under the National Insurance Bill to 10s. a week during sickness, will, if he insures in a society for additional benefits to the extent of 8s. a week, with the object of procuring extra necessary nourishment, be deprived of 3s. per week under the Government scheme, so that he will not get more in all than 15s. a week?

Mr. HOBHOUSE

In the circumstances described the labourer would receive 7s. a week sick pay, and the extra 3s. to which, but for his double insurance, he would have been entitled, would remain in the hands of his society with other funds available for additional benefits.

Mr. RUPERT GWYNNE

Are we to understand that under the proposed scheme these men will not receive any increase.

Mr. HOBHOUSE

If they insure outside the Government scheme they will only get a total amount of 10s.

Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

If a Member maintains his outside insurance the Government would not, in fact, pay him 10s.

Mr. HOBHOUSE

From one point of view that might be so. On the other hand, it will not be paid actually to him, but it will go towards the funds of the society to provide additional benefits either for him or for other members of the society.

Viscount HELMSLEY

If the money goes to the benefit of the society the agricultural labourer will be kept out of the benefits entirely.

Mr. HOBHOUSE

No. If he is in an agricultural branch which is kept separate from the other branch of the society it will go to himself and the other members of that branch.

Viscount HELMSLEY

Is it not the case that half the surplus has to go up to the central fund?

Mr. HOBHOUSE

Undoubtedly, half the funds are to go up in the case of any deficiency.

Mr. RUPERT GWYNNE

Then for every extra shilling over and above the Government grant he loses a shilling from the Government?

Mr. HOBHOUSE

I do not see that that is so at all.