HC Deb 03 July 1911 vol 27 cc797-8
Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSON

asked whether the German sickness insurance scheme provides for sick pay in cases where disablement through sickness prevents an insured person from earning more than one-third of hid usual wages; whether the words in Clause 8 (1) (c) of the National Insurance Bill would permit or require sickness benefit to be paid in cases where the disablement does not completely prevent him from earning wages; and whether he will explain the words, unfit to provide their own maintenance, used in this Clause?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

It is the ordinary practice of existing friendly societies to give sick pay only in cases of complete inability to earn, and the Clause to which the hon. Member refers is intended merely to continue this practice unchanged. The actuaries were asked to make their calculations on this basis.

Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSON

Are we to understand that this scheme is less generous than the German scheme?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

On the contrary, it is much more generous in every respect. The contribution of the State, as he knows perfectly well, is very much more generous. The amount that is paid to subscribers is much more generous. If the hon. Member refers to this particular point we are simply carrying out the principle laid down in a case of this kind by friendly societies who have the administration of sick pay.

Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean to say that the Germans require complete inability for earning anything before qualifying for sick benefit?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I would rather the hon. Member gave notice when asking questions about the German system. The German scheme does not arise out of this question. As a matter of fact I think it is one-third.

Mr. BOOTH

Are we to understand that in those cases where a man is unable to follow his usual employment he will not receive benefit, but only where he is unable to follow any employment?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Yes, that is so. My hon. Friend is asking that the man should not merely be unable to follow the employment he has hitherto pursued, but any employment.

Mr. BOOTH

Yes.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Certainly, any employment.