HC Deb 22 February 1911 vol 21 cc1885-6
Mr. BYLES

asked whether the First Lord of the Admiralty is aware that he told the House of Commons on 20th September, 1909, that nearly 1,000 young seamen annually were subjected to the punishment of the cane; whether there had been any reduction in the number since that time; whether the difficulty of giving a Return of the number of canings, in the Navy could be surmounted, and records required of every such punishment in such a form as would enable his department to grant the Return which had been repeatedly asked for.

Mr. McKENNA

The documents from which the desired Return could be prepared are designed for a purpose wholly different from the compilation of statistics of this kind, and the amount of clerical labour involved in collecting the figures would be considerable, but I shall be happy in the course of the next few days-to furnish my hon. Friend with approximate figures as was done on the former occasion referred to.

Mr. BYLES

Am I to understand that the right hon. Gentleman is not able to say there has been a reduction in the-number since the last report, or whether any record could be kept which would enable the public to know the number of canings?

Mr. McKENNA

As I have told my hon. Friend, in the course of a few days I hope to give him the comparative figures with those already furnished, and in that way they could be compared. I doubt whether the additional information, or exact record, would be worth the additional trouble.

Mr. MacNEILL

Has the right hon. Gentleman considered at all the expediency of making an exact Return of the canings, having regard to the fact that these-canings are inflicted by the rich on the-sons of the poor, and the rich are not caned?

Mr. BYLES

Is it the view of the Admiralty that these young seamen are not amenable to any other kind of influence than that of physical pain?

Mr. McKENNA

Oh, no; I think my hon. Friend will find that the number of cases is not so large as to leave an impression that it is a very customary form of punishment.

Mr. MacNEILL

But why are the poor boys and not the rich boys caned? Why are not the midshipmen caned too?

Mr. McKENNA

I have always understood that on board ship the midshipmen do not go without a certain amount of punishment inflicted by their fellow officers.

Mr. MacNEILL

Is that a justification?