§ Mr. HAYDENasked the Chief Secretary whether he will state when arrangements were made by the Estates Commissioners for the purchase of the Crofton estate, at Clooncellan, Ballymurry, and Ballybeg, in the county of Roscommon; whether these townlands formed one estate, and if any other townlands were included in it; whether Ballybeg consisted of untenanted land and the other town-lands of uneconomic holdings; whether Ballybeg has been given to graziers not formerly on the estate; whether it has been vested in them; if so, when; and whether, at the same time or since, the tenants' holdings have been vested in them?
§ Mr. HAYDENalso asked the nature and value of the tenancy, formerly held by a man named Payne, in a farm on the Pollock estate, now in the possession of the Estates Commissioners; what was the price agreed to for its surrender; and whether he will publish the correspondence which has taken place between the former tenant and the Estates Commissioners or their inspectors, on the one hand, and between the Commissioners and the Congested Districts Board, in regard to this matter and to the farm at Ballybeg, on 1914 the Crofton estate, now in the possession of Mr. Payne as a joint occupier with his brother?
§ Mr. HAYDENfurther asked whether the farm of Ballybeg, on the Crofton estate, was purchased by the Estates Commissioners as untenanted land; that on this estate there is a number of small holdings; that it was understood between the Commissioners, the landlord, and the tenants that this farm would be used for the enlargement of these holdings; and that the landlord has stated he agreed to a reduction in the price at first arranged on the representation that money would be required for making roads and fences through it; whether he is aware that, in face of all these facts, the land has not been so used but given to a migrant grazier and his brother; and whether he will state why the brother of this man has been included in the arrangement?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe lands on the Crofton Estate purchased by the Estates Commissioners in July, 1910, consist of 360 acres at Clooncraft and Clooncellan, occupied by twenty-two tenants, and 330 acres of untenanted land at Ballybeg and Toomona allotted by the Commissioners to Messrs. John and James Payne, who surrendered 523 acres on the Pollock Estate for the relief of congestion on that estate, on which there were about 200 uneconomic and congested holdings. The Paynes held their land on the Pollock Estate under a lease for twenty-one years from 1902, and were offered by the owner £3,000 to surrender, which they refused. Of the twenty-two tenants on the Crofton Estate, six occupy holdings with a valuation of between £5 and £10, and thirteen occupy holdings under £5 valuation. The lands sold to the Paynes are a considerable distance from these holdings, and there is untenanted land much nearer, which, when acquired, can be utilised for enlarging them There was no understanding that the lands of Ballybeg would be utilised for the enlargement of holdings, nor was the price cut down on that account. The only condition made by the owner was that the Commissioners should advance to the tenants of Clooncraft and Clooncellan the amounts at which they had already agreed to purchase, and the Commissioners accepted that condition. The Estates Commissioners, when applying under the Act of 1909 to the Congested Districts Board for their consent to the purchase, informed the Board of the purposes for which they required the Bally- 1915 beg lands There was no correspondence with the Messrs. Payne; the matter was arranged at interviews with them. The Paynes and the other purchasers on the Crofton Estate are in possession of the lands acquired by the Commissioners which will be vested in them in due course. The correspondence between the Estates Commissioners and the Congested Districts Boards is confidential and cannot be laid on the Table of the House.
§ Mr. HAYDENIs this land now actually vested in the Paynes and is the tenanted land vested in the tenants? And is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a large number of uneconomic holdings in the immediate vicinity of this land, and that the giving of the land to the Paynes deprives these tenants of any chance of making their holdings economic?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI am told there is other untenanted land much nearer to the present holders of these uneconomic holdings than the land now allotted to the Paynes.
§ Mr. HAYDENI do not mean the tenants on the Crofton estate, but in the immediate vicinity of the land, but not on the Crofton estate?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe question is a very important one. It really comes to this: Whether, in order to relieve economic pressure in other parts, it is lawful to introduce these Paynes into the county Roscommon. The Estates Commissioners, being most anxious to settle the Pollock estate, and to provide for people upon that estate, thought this was a case in which land might be taken, without injury to Roscommon, in that county, and let to the Paynes. They adopted that course, and I hope they may not be discouraged from pursuing, after most careful consideration, a similar course in the future. Otherwise the whole question of uneconomic treatment in Ireland becomes wholly impossible.
§ Mr. HAYDENThis matter is really so important that I must press the right hon. Gentleman for a further answer in regard to it. Is he aware that there is very considerable congestion in the immediate vicinity of this land, and, if so, how can he hold out any hope that this congestion will be relieved unless by the use of the land in the district, and whether any account was taken of the local opinion in this matter before the land was given away from the use of these people?
§ Mr. BIRRELLMost certainly! That point was most carefully considered, and the Estates Commissioners believed there was untenanted land in this neighbourhood which could be used, and sufficiently and properly used, for the relief of persons in that neighbourhood whose holdings were uneconomic. Unless some discretion is left to them in this matter, the whole matter is one that can never be dealt with at all.
§ Mr. HAYDENI wish to give notice that at the earliest opportunity I shall draw attention to the whole facts.