HC Deb 16 December 1911 vol 32 cc2839-41
Major ARCHER-SHEE

asked what is the actuarially calculated saving to Army funds for the years 1912, 1915, and 1920 by the Issue of Army Order 237, of 1911, altering the conditions of retirement from the Army?

Colonel SEELY

The effect of the changes depends largely upon the voluntary action of officers, and no definite figure can be given. During the earlier years of the new arrangement, however, the change is not expected to produce any saving, but an increase of cost.

Major ARCHER-SHEE

asked whether Army Order 237, of 1911, is intended to alter the conditions of retirement of officers who joined the Army prior to the elate of that warrant?

Colonel SEELY

Under the new regulations a captain or subaltern is not necessarily compelled to retire until the age of 48, instead of 45.

Major ARCHER-SHEE

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he was aware that Army Order 237, of 1911, reduced the pension of majors retired at 50 years of age from £300 to £200 if they joined the service after the age of 23; and, in view of this alteration of the conditions under which these officers joined, officers who joined prior to the date of this Order may be allowed to retire at the old rate of pension?

Colonel SEELY

A major who had the substantive rank before 1st September, 1911, retains the right to £300 a year on age retirement. It is not proposed to extend this, as a reserved right, to officers of lower rank. Such officers will, in all but most exceptional cases, be entitled under Article 513 of the Royal Warrant to considerably more than £200 and the majority to £300.

Major ARCHER-SHEE

asked whether, under Army Order 237, 1911, a captain commissioned before the date of the warrant may retire after fifteen years' service on retired pay at £120, whereas in the case of a captain commissioned before the date of the warrant, if he accepts promotion to the rank of major after the issue of the warrant and retires after fifteen years' service, he will come under Article 509, and can only retire on £80 a year?

Colonel SEELY

The officer in question, if promoted major, will retain his right to £120 a year retired pay on voluntary retirement.

Major ARCHER-SHEE

Does not Article 509 lay this down?

Colonel SEELY

It is a very technical matter, and I do not think I can discuss it by way of question and answer across the floor of the House. If the right hon. Gentleman will write me on the subject I shall be very glad to send him a reply.

Major ARCHER-SHEE

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he will consider the Amendment of the Royal Warrant so as to allow of all officers commissioned before the 1st April, 1909, being permitted to continue serving under the conditions of the Royal Warrant, 1906, and all those commissioned before 1st September, 1911, being permitted to continue serving under the Royal Warrant of 1909 on making application to do so before a given date, those not applying to be held to serve under the conditions of Royal Warrant, 1909, as amended by Army Order 237, 1911.

Colonel SEELY

The question of what rights should be reserved to serving officers was very carefully considered, and the Secretary of State for War is not prepared to make any alteration.

Major ARCHER-SHEE

Does the right hon. Gentleman not consider that; this continual alteration in the conditions of service is a hardship to individual officers and discourages them from putting their sons into the Army?

Colonel SEELY

Suppose that statement to be true, it surely would be a hardship now to make another alteration.