§ This Act shall apply to Ireland, subject to the following modifications:—
- (1) The Lord Lieutenant shall be substituted for the Secretary of State:
- (2) References to the Public Health (Ireland) Acts, 1878 to 1907, shall be substituted for references to the Public Health Acts:
- (3) A reference to article thirty-eight of the Schedule to the Local Government (Application of Enactments) Order, 1898, shall be substituted for the reference to Section eighty-one of the Local Government Act, 1888:
- (4) The power to make an order authorising an inspector appointed under the Factory and Workshop Act, 1901, to take steps for enforcing the
1855 provisions of this Act and of the orders made thereunder may be exercised with the consent of the Secretary of State: - (5) A reference to an Act of the Parliament of Ireland of the seventh year of William III., chapter seventeen, intituled "An Act for the better observation of the Lord's Day commonly called Sunday," shall be substituted for the reference to the Sunday Observance Act, 1677:
- (6) A local authority for the purposes of this Act means:—
- (a) as respects any municipal borough, the borough council; and
- (b) as respects any urban district, the district council:
- (7) This Act shall not extend to any rural district, and the provisions with respect to rural parishes shall not apply:
- (8) In the case of a shop assistant employed in a shop in which the business of the sale by retail of intoxicating liquors for consumption on or off the premises, or for consumption off the premises only, is carried on. Sub-sections (1) and (2) of Section one of this Act shall not apply, but, instead thereof, the following provisions shall have effect:—
- (a) The assistant shall not, save as otherwise provided by this Act, be employed about the business of such shop for more than seventy-two hours (inclusive of meal hours) in any week;
- (b) Intervals for meals shall be allowed to each assistant, amounting to not less than two hours on each day;
- (c) The assistant shall, subject as hereinafter mentioned, be allowed on one week-day in each week a holiday of not less than seven hours (in this Sub-section referred to as a weekly half-holiday).
§ Unless the employer and the shop assistant otherwise agree, the weekly half-holiday shall commence either at the time at which the shop opens on that day (in this Sub-section referred to as "a morning half-holiday"), or at a time not less than seven hours 1856 before the time at which the shop closes on that day (in this Sub section referred to as "an afternoon half-holiday"), and the aforesaid half-holidays shall be so arranged that the assistant shall be allowed a morning half-holiday and an afternoon half-holiday alternately;
§ (d) An assistant who has been employed by the same employer for a period of not less than twenty - six consecutive weeks about the business of one or more shops of the employer shall, so long as he continues in the employment of that employer, be allowed an annual holiday of at least seven consecutive days, or, if he has been employed as aforesaid for a period of not less than fifty-two consecutive weeks, an annual holiday of at least fourteen consecutive days;
§ (e) In any week in which an assistant is absent from his employment in or about the business of the shop, either on his annual holiday or on account of ill-health or otherwise, the weekly half-holiday may be disallowed in the case of every other assistant employed in or about the business of the shop and the number of hours of weekly employment of every such other assistant may be increased by seven hours accordingly: Provided that where the assistant is absent for more than four consecutive weeks on account of ill-health the weekly half-holiday of the other assistants shall not be disallowed and their hours of employment shall not be increased by reason of such absence except in the first four weeks in which he is absent;
§ (f) No deduction from wages or salary payable to the assistant shall be made on account of any such holidays or half-holidays as aforesaid.
§ (9) The business of the sale by retail of intoxicating liquors for consumption off the premises only shall be deemed to be included amongst the trades and businesses specified in Part I. of the Second Schedule and amongst the trades and businesses exempted from the provisions of this Act 1857 (other than the provisions of this Section) with respect to a weekly half-holiday:
§ (10) A local authority may, in addition to its other powers under this Act, make an order fixing the hours on the several week-days before which, either throughout the area of the local authority or in any specified part thereof, no shop in which the business of the sale of intoxicating liquors for consumption on or off or for consumption off the premises only is carried on shall be open for serving customers:
§ Such order shall be deemed to be a closing order, and all the provisions of this Act with respect to closing orders, save those relating to the earliest hours to be fixed by a closing order, shall apply accordingly with the necessary modifications:
§ (11) Shops in which there is carried on the business of the sale by retail of intoxicating liquors for consumption on or off the premises, whether such business is carried on alone or in conjunction with any other business or trade, shall, for the purposes of the provisions of this Act with respect to closing orders, be deemed to be shops of a separate class, and a local authority shall not make a closing order applying to shops of that class unless they are satisfied that the occupiers of at least two-thirds in number of the shops of that class approve the order, or, in the case of a vote being taken, that at least two-thirds of the votes recorded by the occupiers of shops of that class are in favour of the order:
§ (12) Shops in which there is carried on the business of the sale by retail of intoxicating liquors for consumption off the premises only, whether such business is carried on alone or in conjunction with any other business or trade, shall in like manner and for the purposes aforesaid be deemed to be shops of a separate class, and the provisions of the last preceding Sub-section with respect to the making of closing orders shall apply to that class of shops as a separate class accordingly.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI beg to move, to leave out Sub-sections (2), (3), (4), (5), and (6).
§ Mr. CLANCYI have to express great regret that the Government have decided to omit these Sub-sections, which are a vital part of the Clause. The Irish Members were in favour of the general provisions of this Bill, and the only difficulty that arose was in connection with assistants in public-houses. That matter was discussed on Second Beading. It was pointed out by the right hon. Gentleman, on the one hand that those assistants needed protection more almost than any other class, and in speaking of that class I think he spoke generally of the whole United Kingdom. It was said, on the other hand there were many provisions in the Bill which, if carried out, would really be hurtful to the position in Ireland. For many years past many Acts have been passed which affected the Irish publicans very injuriously. In Ireland an agitation was conducted in regard to this Bill, and it was found very difficult to reconcile conflicting interests. I and some of my colleagues took part in trying to bridge over the difficulties and to reconcile the different parties and get them to come to an agreement. After some difficulty we did succeed in getting an agreement between the representatives of the licensing trade in Ireland, and the representatives of the different associations of assistants. The subject of that agreement was expressed in Sub-section (8) of this Clause. The attitude we took up in the Committee upstairs in regard to this matter was this We said we were not speaking on behalf of either the publicans or their assistants, but on behalf of both. We are advocating not exactly what each one of us might probably have proposed, but what the two parties together have agreed to, and we asked the Government and the Grand Committee to accept this agreement and they did. For my part I think it was a very equitable settlement, and I can conceive that it would have produced peace and brought about concord between two classes better than any agreement or settlement that could be proposed against the wishes of those affected. The Government agreed to this, and the Committee agreed with us except on one point, and that is a point which is absolutely vital. The limitation as to hours of work was altered; sixty hours was proposed for England, and in consequence of a concession which was made to the assistants the publicans agreed to an extension of seventy-two hours as the maximum time of employment. In the Committee the hours for meals were taken into account 1859 in fixing the seventy-two, and I do not think I mis-state the case when I say that the Government regretted that decision. I think the right hon. Gentleman has promised to move an Amendment in the Sub-section dealing with meal hours to change "inclusive" into "exclusive," thereby settling a question which was left unsettled by the Committee. As regards this point I myself would regard the agreement as being absolutely torn up if this Amendment is not made. Therefore I do not anticipate that the right hon. Gentleman will offer any objection to this Amendment.
It may be said that the Bill has been altered greatly since it left the Grand Committee, and it now deals only with three points. It deals with meal hours, the weekly half-holiday, and with the closing of certain houses on the weekly half-holiday. As regards the last kind of public-houses they are exempt in England and in Ireland, and the Amendment proposed by the right hon. Gentleman is in the case of Ireland necessary, because of the large number of public-houses in Ireland which carry on a grocery trade and sell other articles beside intoxicating liquors. I think the right hon. Gentleman has acted properly in proposing that Amendment and making certain, what was to some extent, doubtful. It may be said these three points being left, we ought not to insist upon the full Amendment which we have proposed, and which the Committee upstairs sanctioned. The way we stand will, I think, be appreciated from what I have said. We are bound by this agreement, and could not depart from it in any vital matter without breaking faith with the other parties to it. I should feel myself in the wrong if I assented to any course like that. There are, no doubt, some drafting Amendments, but they might be made either here without any discussion or in the House of Lords, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman will reconsider the position he has taken up as indicated by his Amendments to this Clause, and that he will leave the provision in the same form as it was left by the Grand Committee.
§ Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause," put, and negatived.
§ Amendment made: In Sub-section (7), leave out the words "and the provisions with respect to rural parishes shall not 1860 apply," and insert instead thereof the words "or part of a rural district."
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI beg to move, to leave out Sub-sections (8), (9), (10), (11), and (12), and to insert instead thereof the following new Sub-seotion:—
(3) Any shop in which the trade or business of the sale by retail of intoxicating liquors is carried on in conjunction with any other trade or business, shall, as respects all such trades or businesses, be exempt from the obligation to be closed on the weekly half-holiday.
§ Mr. GRETTONI do not oppose this, but I want to point out how important it is. In Ireland, in the majority of cases, both intoxicating liquor and some other article are sold. The tailor, the butcher, the shoemaker, the grocer, and the ironmonger all do business in intoxicating liquor, so the exception is going a very long way. We should not venture to ask for such an exception in the case of England. On this side of the Channel they consider mixed trading in liquor shops is not desirable, but in Ireland the practice is extensive, and every one of them is going to be exempted from the weekly half-holiday. The hon. Member who spoke just now wanted the whole Clause reserved with a view to amendment. But I think he is asking the House far too much. The most important Amendment was carried against the wishes of the hon. and learned Gentleman and his Friends, and surely the whole matter is not to be raised again at this late hour. I desire to enter a protest with respect to this very important exception regarding mixed trading shops in Ireland.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe hon. Gentleman has protested against the words which I have proposed to substitute for the original proposal inserted in the Bill by the Grand Committee. Without at this moment attempting to deal with the objections which he has urged, I should like, in view of his protests and criticisms, to ask the House whether it feels inclined to consider the alternative to that course, namely, to allow the Irish representatives to have the Clause which has actually been agreed upon between employers and employed in Ireland. It is an absolutely agreed arrangement—very complex and very difficult.
§ Mr. GRETTONIs it not the fact that the part of the Clause which the right hon. Gentleman is now proposing to discuss has already been passed?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLWe are now dealing with that part beginning with Sub-section (8) to the end of the Clause.
§ Mr. GRETTONThis is an important matter. I understand that the first six Sub-sections have gone, and we have dealt with Sub-section (7), in which a small Amendment dealing with rural districts has been inserted. We are now discussing a proposal dealing with Sub-section (8).
§ 5.0 P.M.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLYes, from Subsection (8) to the end of the Clause. I want to put one point to hon. Gentlemen opposite. Here is a Clause which has been agreed upon between the publicans and their assistants throughout Ireland. There has not been a word of protest or objection to it in the form in which it was moved by the Irish representatives. It is a treaty of peace between employers and employed, and the Irish Members ask that it shall be embodied in the Bill and given statutory force. I cannot see what objection any British or Scottish Member can possibly have to this beneficial arrangement, which gives so many advantages to the Irish public-house assistants, and which, of course, applies to all who are concerned in the liquor trade in Ireland. It is a far better thing than I was able to propose in regard to England. It was absolutely agreed upon by both sections of Irish opinion. I am perfectly willing to drop my Amendment, against which the hon. Member has entered his protest, and to allow the Clause to go forward from here to the end in the form in which it left the Grand Committee. If this House is going to take the position that it is a proper matter for Irish legislation, and if there are any Members in this House who attach importance to that point, whatever their views on other controversies may be, I ask them not to prevent a settlement on which all Irish representatives were agreed, whether they be Parliamentary representatives or whether they are the employers or the employed in this trade. In these circumstances I shall be quite willing to adhere to the general sense of the House with regard to the legislative enactment of the agreement.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYI agree that the right hon. Gentleman has taken a very proper course. I can hardly see why any English Member should, for the mere sake of symmetry, object to the arrangement that has been made. The Government were 1862 in a position of considerable difficulty. They had to legislate for different parts of the country which were in a very distinct position. What did the Government do? Here was the proposal unanimously agreed to by both sections in Ireland, both the trade themselves and their employés. Opposition to that coming from England, the Government accepted a rearrangement of the matter, which now finds its place in this Clause. If the Government took any other course than the course they have taken, I think they would be acting unwisely and unjustly, nor can I see why any English Member should interfere in a matter which is purely domestic, unless he wishes to see the three Kingdoms made into a sort of chequer-board of black and white squares. I did not rise for the purpose of merely saying that, but I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is quite clear that the Clause will apply to the rural districts only. It seems to me that if the intention be, as I take it to be, to confine the Clause to the rural districts only, it is perhaps open to the objection that it is a little too wide. I will read it:—
This Act shall not extend to any rural district or part of a rural district,and then, without any break, it goes on as if it was an absolutely distinct piece of legislation—the word "and" is struck out:Any shop in which the trade or business of the sale by retail of intoxicating liquors is carried on in conjunction with any other trade or business shall as respects any such trades or businesses be exempt from the obligation to be closed on the weekly half-holiday.If that is intended to apply only to rural districts the word "and" ought to remain in or some such words as those ought to be inserted.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI do not think there can be any mistake. I will look into it to see that nothing has been overlooked.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI beg to move, to leave out the word "inclusive" ["seventy-two hours (inclusive of meal hours)"], and to insert instead thereof the word "exclusive." This will bring the Clause back into the original form in which it was agreed to.
§ Mr. GRETTONThis is a most important Amendment, and it was carried 1863 in the Committee against the feeling of Gentlemen below the Gangway. I voted with them. The House should be aware that this is a matter which was not carried by agreement. There was considerable discussion, and a sharp Debate, and, in the result, the reaction of hon. Members sitting behind the Government. It appeared to me and to some of my Friends who were acting with me on that occasion, that the word "inclusive" should be substituted for "exclusive." This Amendment should not be carried without the House being fully aware of what it is doing. If the Amendment is carried a very considerable difference will be made from what was passed in the Committee.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYI have not the same feeling of confidence in the soundness of the action which the Government have taken in this matter as I had in the former case. You are making undoubtedly a large addition to the hours by this Amendment.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLIt was originally agreed between the parties that the word "exclusive" should be used, and then against the advice of the Government the Committee put in the word "inclusive." Therefore what is proposed is to put the Clause into exactly the form asked by the parties in Ireland.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYI understood the right hon. Gentleman to say quite the contrary. If this is an agreed matter, I agree.
§ Mr. CLANCYThe hon. Member (Mr. T. M. Healy) supported what was originally in the Bill.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. BRADY, I beg to move, to insert at the end of the paragraph following paragraph (c) the words,
Provided that nothing in this Act, or any order made thereunder, shall affect the powers or provisions contained in Section 11 of the Act 37 and 38 Vic, chapter 69, in respect of the granting or withdrawing of exemption orders made in respect of premises in the vicinity of markets or fairs.If this proviso is passed it will enable local authorities to issue orders in respect of houses which have been granted what are known as exemption orders. These exemption orders are absolutely necessary 1864 for the convenience of persons attending markets and fairs. I take it that there will be no objection to the Amendment.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe Amendment is in manuscript now, and I should like to have an opportunity of considering it. If it is thought desirable, it will be put in in the House of Lords.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYI do not think the Government should have any hesitation in accepting the Amendment. It makes no change in the present law. There is a large cattle market held every Thursday morning in Dublin, where it is absolutely necessary that the publicans should have an exemption order to enable them to open their houses at a convenient hour for those attending the market. All that my hon. Friend seeks to do is to leave the law intact.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI will put my suggestion the other way about. I will accept the Amendment now subject to the possible rejection of it afterwards.
§ Amendment agreed to.