§ Mr. EDGAR JONESasked the Undersecretary of State for India what steps he proposes to take as to the wages paid on Government contracts at Dowlais works?
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked the Undersecretary of State for India whether he has yet received a Report from the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee on the district rate of wages for the Dowlais district?
§ Mr. MONTAGUThe Fair-Wages Advisory Committee have this morning advised the Secretary of State that the wages paid at Dowlais are in their opinion not strictly in conformity with the Fair-Wages Resolution. In these circumstances Messrs. Guest, Keen and Nettle-fold will be informed that no further orders will be placed by the Secretary of State in Council with them at Dowlais until this state of affairs has been remedied.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEUp to what standard are these wages to be brought, the Ebbw Vale or what other district?
§ Mr. MONTAGUI cannot say that at present, because the advice that we have received from the Fair-Wages Committee goes no further than that. It was all that was necessary for the moment for taking immediate action. The other matter will be enquired into, but I think the hon. Member will agree that it is very satisfactory, having regard to the pressure on the Board of Trade, to have received this information so expeditiously.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEI agree, but I understand the point referred to the Advisory Committee was what district were the Dowlais wages to be compared with for the purposes of the Fair-Wages Clause. Has no decision been come to on that point?
§ Mr. MONTAGUNo, not yet.
§ Mr. EDGAR JONESIs there any question of the cancellation of the contract?
§ Mr. MONTAGUThere is no necessity, I think, to consider the cancellation of any contract. The present contract between the India Office and this firm is a very small one, and, I understand, is almost completed.
§ Mr. EDGAR JONESasked the Secretary for the Colonies what steps he proposes to take as to the wages paid on Government contracts at the Dowlais works?
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has yet received a report from the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee concerning the wages rate for Dowlais?
Mr. HARCOURTThe Fair-Wages Advisory Committee have this morning advised that the wages paid at Dowlais are in their opinion not strictly in conformity with the Fair-Wages Resolution. In these circumstances Messrs. Guest, Keen and Nettlefold will be informed that no further orders will be placed by the Crown Agents with them at Dowlais until this state of affairs has been remedied.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEHas any further progress been made by the Advisory Committee in determining what Fair-Wages should be in Dowlais?
Sir GILBERT PARKERAs the right hon. Gentleman's answer only refers to the Crown Colonies, may I ask whether the Government would have any authority to intervene in regard to contracts made in one of His Majesty's self-Governing Dominions?
§ Mr. J. WARDWould it be possible to advise the Colonies not to make contracts with those firms which pay sweating wages?
Mr. HARCOURTI am not sure that it would be wise for me to assume the position of adviser in these matters?
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have already done so. What is the remedy? What wage is to constitute a fair wage? That is the point.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked whether the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee has yet come to a decision on the questions referred to them by the India and Colonial Offices concerning the rates of wages which should be paid at Dowlais?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Tennant)I am informed that the Committee have this morning communicated to the India Office their views on the point which was referred to them by that Department in a letter dated 14th August.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEWhat wages are to be paid at Dowlais to the workmen employed there under the provisions of the Fair-Wages Contract? When is an answer expected to that?
§ Mr. TENNANTThe answer has been sent by the Committee to the India Office, and I have not by me the actual terms of that letter.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEIs not it the case that the same answer was some two days ago delivered in this House? The point at issue now really is what wages are to be paid at Dowlais. When is an answer expected to that?
§ Mr. TENNANTMy hon. Friend's question on the Paper is whether the Advisory Committee have yet come to a decision on the question. I believe they have.
§ Mr. EDGAR JONESasked the First Lord of the Admiralty what steps he proposes to take as to the wages paid on Government contracts at the Dowlais works?
§ The FIRST LORD of the ADMIRALTY (Mr. McKenna)The Admiralty has no contracts with the Dowlais works.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked whether the Admiralty adopts a different interpretation of the Fair-Wages Resolution from that followed by the India and Colonial Offices; and whether the First Lord of the Admiralty can recommend a method by which workmen will know when to claim union rates for Government contracts who are being sweated whilst employed on non-Government work; and whether a firm which does not generally pay fair wages is entitled to remain on the approved list of Government contractors?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe Admiralty adopts the same interpretation of the Fair-Wages Resolution as that followed by the India and Colonial Offices. It is open to workmen to claim fair rates for Government contracts at any time, irrespective of the rates of pay which they are receiving for non-Government work. I consider that the non-payment of fair wages generally by a firm is a good ground for the non-retention of that firm on the list of Admiralty contractors.
§ Mr. KELLAWAYIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that wages of 18s. a week are being paid by some contractors to the Admiralty?
§ Mr. McKENNAIf the hon. Member will bring to me any case I will submit the circumstances to the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee in order to get their advice upon it.
§ Mr. J. WARDDoes the right hon. Gentleman interpret fair wages to be 5d. an hour for poor navvies?
§ Mr. McKENNAThat will depend upon the rate of wages paid in the district by the best employers.
§ Mr. J. WARDDid not the right hon. Gentleman state distinctly in this House in answer to a question that he considered 5d. an hour a fair wage?
§ Mr. McKENNAWhat I said as to the interpretation of the Fair-Wages Clause was that the rate of wages should be such as would be covered by the terms of the Clause.
§ Sir FORTESCUE FLANNERYMay I ask the First Lord of the Admiralty, with regard to sub-contracts, for instance, whether Dowlais steel used by shipbuilding firms is made at wages below the scale?
§ Mr. McKENNAI understand that the steel is not made at Dowlais, but at Cardiff, and that fair wages are paid.
§ Sir FORTESCUE FLANNERYCan the right hon. Gentleman say how far steel made upon a scale of wages below the proper scale, and used in other yards, is permitted by the Admiralty?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe Fair-Wages Clause applies to sub-contractors as well as to the principal contractors.
§ Sir FORTESCUE FLANNERYHow far is this material which is used traced into other yards where it is worked?
§ Mr. McKENNAI should have notice of that question.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the machinery for holding steel plates at Cardiff is made in Dowlais, and is he aware that those engaged in making that machinery are under the terms of the Fair-Wages Clause?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe Fair-Wages Advisory Committee have advised that where plant is mainly or largely used for the purpose of Admiralty contracts, the wages in making the plant must be taken into account, but it depends, according to their advice, whether the plant is mainly or largely used. I have already explained to my hon. Friend that in this case we have not yet been advised as to whether the circumstances of the plant used at Cardiff are such as to enable us to declare that the plant is mainly or largely used in the execution of a Government contract.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEI shall raise the question on the third reading of the Appropriation Bill.