§ The Treasury may, with a view to the development of that part of the telegraphic system of the United Kingdom which is called the telephonic system, without prejudice to the exercise of any powers previously given for the like purpose, issue out of the Consolidated Fund or the growing produce thereof such sums, not exceeding in the whole the sum of four million pounds, as may be required by the Postmaster-General for the purpose of developing the telephonic system aforesaid according to estimates approved by the Treasury.
§ Mr. PETOI desire to move, after the word "development" ["development of that part of the telegraphic system"], to insert the words "in rural as well as in urban areas."
I am aware that we have been told that this is the intention of the Government and that these words are unnecessary. We have the assurance that the Government have the pious intention in spending this £4,000,000 of developing the telephonic system in rural as well as in urban areas. I want to see something in this Bill more definite, something in black and white, and something beyond the mere expression of opinion that the rural areas will not be entirely neglected. I want to point out that this £4,000,000 for telephone development is only a very small beginning, and therefore it is additionally important that we should establish the principle at the 2130 outset on which we are going to spend the money for the purpose of developing the telephone system now to be taken over by the Government throughout the whole of the country. The Government have indicated to the House that they rather look to the United States of America as a model of what we are to do in this country. If that is so, I think it would be quite in order to put briefly before the House what that standard is we are going to try to reach. The standard in the United States is 76 subscribers per thousand of the population, whilst here it is only 15. In order to reach the standard of the United States, which is obviously very largely a question of the development of telephones in the enormous rural areas, we should have to increase our telephone stations by 2,500,000, and we should have to spend £76,500,000 at the rate of £30 per station. If that is so, this is part of a very large question, and I think we certainly ought to have these words inserted at the very outset. Clearly indicating that this is the first loan authorised in the telephone system, and that this money should be expended in the development of the telephonic system in rural as well as urban areas.
§ Sir WILLIAM BULLI beg to second the Amendment.
§ The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Herbert Samuel)It is the intention of the Government to develop the telephone system in the rural districts. We have now nine hundred exchanges in these districts, and we have some score of exchanges added every year. What is proposed is unnecessary, and it is even contrary to precedent to state in the terms of a Bill that it is intended to develop any rural area, or that it is intended to develop Ireland, Scotland, or Wales. That is in the discretion of the Department concerned, subject to the control of the House of Commons. This matter may be raised every year in the course of the Vote, and, if there is not sufficient development in the rural districts, the Postmaster-General may be criticised and a Motion may be-made to reduce his salary. The hon. Member has, as the Bill stands, a control which is more efficient than any vague statement in an Act of Parliament.
§ Mr. PETOI want something very much more than a vague statement. If the House accepts the first Amendment in my name I will get something more definite when we come to the later ones.
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThe hon. Member has given no definition of rural area. That is not for example adequate. Take mining and other areas. Would these be included? It would be impossible for us to precisely adjust the expenditure so as to secure the proper one-eighth or one-quarter. But why should it not be one-tenth or one-sixth. It is impossible to fix any sum in an Act of Parliament. I would ask the hon. Member to leave the matter in, I think, the not incapable hands of the Department.
§ Question put, and negatived.
§ Mr. SPEAKERDoes the hon. Member move his next Amendment?
§ Mr. PETOI would like to ask whether it would be in order to move this Amendment, seeing that the previous Amendment has not been accepted?
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELThere is no definition of "rural areas" which are mentioned in the Amendment.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Amendment seems contingent on the first one. They all seem to hang together.