HC Deb 16 August 1911 vol 29 cc1901-2
Mr. SNOWDEN

asked if an employed insured person under the national insurance scheme retires from work at, say, fifty-five or sixty years of age, and lives on his savings, will he be able to continue to be an insured person entitled to all the benefits of the scheme; and, if so, on what conditions as to the payment of premiums?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

A rentier in the position described would continue to be an insured person, and would have the right to continue paying contributions in accordance with Clause 10 (5) of the Bill in order to avoid falling into arrears.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Does that mean that he will have to pay the employers' contribution as well as his own?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Yes.

Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

Does the right hon. Gentleman say that the two, the employers' and the workman's contribution, will be smaller than he will have to pay in the ordinary way to a friendly society?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Certainly, for the benefits he will have under the Bill.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean to say that a man who has been a member of a friendly society for a large number of years can get benefits under this scheme for 7d. a week equal to those he would get from a friendly society for a smaller contribution?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

I certainly say so, having regard to the benefits which are conferred by the Bill. It is not my opinion, but the opinion of gentlemen more competent than the hon. Gentleman or myself to express an opinion after examining the figures very carefully.

Mr. CHIOZZA MONEY

Is it not a fact that the benefits under the Bill are based upon a sixteen years of age scale? Does not that prove the point?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

They are all based on the Manchester Unity scale.

Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

Does the right hon. Gentleman not know that the actuaries' report says that the benefits at sixteen years cost 6¼d.?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

The hon. Gentleman has forgotten that there is a margin of £1,800,000 over and above that amount.

Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

The margin is over 11 per cent., so that it is 6¼d. plus the margin.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

No, what the hon. Gentleman forgets is that the 6¼d. does not take into account the allowance for arrears.