§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked the Undersecretary of State for India the result of his inquiries into the rates of pay to workmen engaged in connection with the Government contract for rails, etc., at Dowlais ironworks; and what action he proposes to take to secure the proper observance of the Fair-Wages Clause attached to this contract?
§ The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for INDIA (Mr. Montagu)I regret that I am not yet in a position to give a definite answer. We have made this progress; that, on the advice of the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee I am prepared to admit that the moulders and steel makers at Dowlais must be regarded as employed on our contract. The wages at Dowlais appear certainly to be low, but the Committee have not yet given me their advice whether the general rates paid there are within the terms of the Fair-Wages Resolution, and it is on this point that I regret very much there is still delay, which I hope will be of short duration. I may add that no new contract will be placed at Dowlais until the matter is decided.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEI wish to thank the hon. Gentleman for his reply and to ask him whether there is any probability of the Advisory Committee being able to report by Thursday of this week?
§ Mr. MONTAGUI have communicated with the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee, and I have not the slightest doubt they will do all in their power to expedite a decision. It is a difficult matter of far-reaching consequences, and I am sure there will be no delay which is absolutely unnecessary.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that the Fair-Wages Clause is being systematically and continuously violated by Messrs. Guest, Keen and Nettlefold whilst executing Colonial Office contracts at their Dowlais works; and what action he proposes taking to secure its enforcement?
§ The SECRETARY of STATE for the COLONIES (Mr. Harcourt)I regret that I am not yet in a position to give a definite answer. We have made this progress: that, on the advice of the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee, I am prepared to admit that the moulders and steel makers at Dowlais must be regarded as employed on our contract. The wages at Dowlais appear certainly to be low, but the Committee have not yet given me their advice whether the general rates paid there are within the terms of the Fair-Wages Resolution, and it is on this point that I regret very much there is still delay, which I hope will be of short duration. I may add that no new contract will be placed at Dowlais until the matter is decided.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIENo more contracts are to be given to this firm by the Colonial Office until this matter is cleared up?
§ Mr. HARCOURTThat is so.
§ Mr. CHIOZZA MONEYIf this is the conduct of a firm in cases where there is a Fair-Wages Clause, what would it be if there were no such Clause?
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked what decision has been arrived at by the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee concerning the wages of certain classes of labourers and of skilled workmen at Dowlais engaged on Government contracts?
§ The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Buxton)I am informed that the conclusions arrived at by the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee on the matters in question have been communicated to the Departments concerned, with which the responsibility for any action taken will rest.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEMay I ask whether the Advisory Committee has given the Department any advice as to what constitutes a district within the meaning of the Fair-Wages Clause?
§ Mr. BUXTONI think the reply given by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary for India covered the first point definitely. With regard to the second we have not had time to consider the matter, but we will do so as rapidly as possible.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that this matter has been before the Advisory Committee some ten days, and unless a decision be given immediately a very large addition to the strike area will follow? Can the right hon. Gentleman promise an answer by Thursday next?
§ Mr. BUXTONI have no control over the Advisory Committee. The Chairman is an official of the Board of Trade, but otherwise it is a Departmental Committee representing various departments. I have no personal control over the matter, but I am sure my hon. Friend, as he has already informed the hon. Member, and his Committee will do their utmost to arrive at a conclusion as soon as possible on this very difficult point.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEasked the First Lord of the Admiralty what action he proposes taking to secure the enforcement of the Fair-Wages Clause at Dowlais, where the moulders make various parts of the machinery employed in the plate-rolling process, and where the pattern-makers make the patterns for the moulders, and are thus in both cases directly employed in connection with the contracts now being executed by Messrs. Guest, Keen, and Nettlefold on behalf of the Admiralty?
§ The FIRST LORD of the ADMIRALTY (Mr. McKenna)The doubt whether the Wages Clauses in the Admiralty contracts, mentioned in my hon. Friend's question, can be held to apply to wages paid in making the appliances used for the firm's general business, as well as for the Admiralty contracts, is, I regret to say, not yet elucidated by the report of the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee. As regards the further question as to the rates of wages paid at Dowlais, I must refer my hon. Friend to the answer given to-day by my hon. Friend the Under Secretary for India.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEMay I ask whether the Admiralty will adopt the policy of the India Office and consider that these men, if indirectly employed in connection with the contracts, come within the terms of the Fair-Wages Clause?.
§ Mr. McKENNAAs I have stated, the opinion expressed by the Advisory Committee does not exactly cover the Admiralty case. It is not the same as the India Office case. We will have further inquiry made on the point. My hon. Friend will understand that in the case of the Admiralty contracts the steel used in the manufacture of steel plates is made at Cardiff and not at Dowlais, and the plant used by the Cardiff firm is of a different class.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the same point exactly arose in regard to the moulders who make the machinery for rolling the plates, and whether the rules of the India Office on this point cannot also be accepted by the Admiralty?
§ Mr. McKENNAThe hon. Member may be right, but I am advised that the case of the moulders used in the manufacture of plates is not the same as the case of the moulders engaged in the manufacture of steel rails. So far as the cases are the same, I adopt the answer of the Undersecretary for India, but where they are not the same I must fall back on the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEWill the right hon. Gentleman lay before the Advisory Committee the fact that the machinery for making the moulds for the shipbuilding plates at Cardiff is made at Dowlais by the moulders now on strike there, and therefore the case is analogous to that of the India Office; the only difference being that in one case it is for rails and in the other for plates.
§ Mr. McKENNAI am informed that the cases are not the same, inasmuch as the plant used for the manufacture of steel rails at Cardiff is only used to a small extent for Admiralty contracts. Therefore the opinion of the Advisory Committee does not apply.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the rail-making machinery is only applied part of the time to Government contracts, and, in spite of that, the India Office have ruled that the Fair-Wages Clause must apply?
§ Mr. McKENNAAccording to the advice given by the Fair-Wages Advisory Committee, the answer depends on the proportion in which the plant is used for Government contracts and for outside contracts. We have constantly to refer to this particular point in regard to Admiralty contracts.
§ Mr. KEIR HARDIEDoes the Admiralty interpret the Fair-Wages Clause to mean that fair wages are only to be paid during the time that the men are employed direct on the Government contract, and that the firm may sweat its workers all the rest of the time except those few hours?
§ Mr. McKENNAThat is, I regret to say, the only construction which can be put upon the Fair-Wages Clause.
§ Mr. C. DUNCANMay I ask whether, under the Fair-Wages Clause a certain proportion of sweating can be permitted to continue?
§ Mr. McKENNANo, under the Fair-Wages Clause there can be no sweating in the manufacture of the article which is governed by the contract, but it must be a question of law whether the contract is or is not complied with, and the fact that the firm may pay less than the proper rate of wages would not invalidate the particular contract, though it would be a good reason for not giving another contract to the same firm.
§ Mr. McKENNAIt does not apply at all.