§ Mr. FLAVINasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he was aware that James Casey, of Foxfort, Causeway, was in receipt of an old age pension from the Ballyheigue committee; that on appeal the pension was disallowed on the grounds that his means of subsistence exceeded the statutory amount; and whether he could say on what grounds and by what method his means of living was ascertained or computed to exceed the maximum of £31 10s. per year?
§ The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)I understand that James Casey, who had assigned his farm 1610 to his son when the latter was married on 23rd February, 1909, made a claim for a pension on 3rd March, which was disallowed by the sub-committee. The committee came to this decision apparently on the ground that the value of the privileges reserved to the claimant by the deed of assignment and of the fortune of £200 retained by him, exceeded £31 10s. per annum. On the claimant appealing, the Local Government Board upheld the committee's decision. When Casey made a second claim the committee granted him a pension of 5s. a week; but the Board allowed the appeal of the pension officer as Casey's circumstances appeared to have undergone no alteration in the meantime.
§ Mr. CULLINANasked whether instructions as to the administration of the Old Age Pensions Act were issued to pension officers in Ireland; and, if so, would the House be supplied with copies of same?
§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Hobhouse)I beg to refer the hon. Member to the replies given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the hon. Member for the Kingswinford Division and the hon. Member for Marylebone (East) on 14th and 15th October, 1908, in which he stated that the instructions given to the pension officers are of a confidential nature, and are intended for Departmental use only.
§ Mr. CULLINANAs it has been denied that such instructions were issued upon one occasion, may I ask whether the pension officers are acting under the direct instructions of the Treasury or on their own initiative?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSENo instructions are given by the Treasury. It is by the Board of Customs and Excise. But on many occasions the pension officers must act upon their own initiative.
§ Mr. CULLINANAre the pension officers in Ireland acting under the instructions of the Board of Customs and Excise, or of the Local Government Board of Ireland?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI agree it is a difficult position, because part of their responsibility is due to the Customs and Excise, and part, as it were, to the Local Government Board. That results from the Old Age Pensions Act. There is a division of responsibility. Where a pension is granted it is on the responsibility of the Customs and Excise.
§ Mr. CULLINANThen there is no one responsible?
§ Mr. HUGH LAWIs it not due to certain instructions that a large number of pensions granted and enjoyed in Ireland for some time, on evidence which was considered satisfactory at the time, were subsequently repealed?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe first part of the question is correct; the second part is incorrect. It was in consequence of fresh evidence not forthcoming that any pensions were withdrawn.
§ Mr. SCANLANHas the Treasury addressed any communication to the Board of Customs and Excise with a view to the taking of such action as would result in the reduction in the amount of the pensions in Ireland and a saving to the Treasury?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSENo. No such instruction has been given.
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe ultimate decision whether or not a pension shall be taken away rests with the Local Government Board.
§ Mr. CULLINANasked the Chief Secretary in how many cases where pensions under 5s. had been recommended, and the applicant appealed, had the Local Government Board refused to sanction any pension whatever; and in how many cases had they increased the amount to 5s., or approved the lesser sum?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI am not in a position to furnish the information asked for by the hon. Member, which could only be obtained by making a special examination of each of the 30,000 cases already decided by the Local Government Board.
§ Mr. CULLINANAs this is a matter of tremendous importance, may I ask if the right hon. Gentleman cannot see his way to have the Return made out? Is he aware that in every case in which a sum of less than 5s. has been appealed against the Local Government Board has refused to give any pension at all?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Local Government Board is always willing to have its conduct inquired into. But it would be a work almost of impossibility in view of the number of pension cases.
§ Mr. HUGH LAWIs it not the fact that the cases covered by the question of my hon. Friend were identical with Foley's case, in which it was laid down by the judges that the action of the Local Government Board was ultra vires?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThat case was one which hardly governs any other except itself.
§ Mr. SHEEHANasked the Chief Secretary whether, in the case of Mary Hickie, old age pensioner, of Inches, district of Millstreet, county Cork, whose pension was stopped on the sole ground that her name was not found in the Census of 1841, and whose marriage certificate, endorsed by the pension officer, bears out her statement, which is also supported by other independent evidence, that she is well over seventy years of age, any remedy is now open to her to reclaim her pension; and, if so, will he state the steps necessary to be taken to secure this object?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI have already gone fully into the facts of this case in reply to the question asked by the hon. Member on the 3rd instant. It is open to Mrs. Hickie to make a fresh claim at any time if she thinks she can produce satisfactory evidence of age.