HC Deb 10 June 1910 vol 17 cc937-8

This Act shall come into operation on the first day of January, One Thousand Nine Hundred and Eleven, and shall extend to Scotland only.

Mr. GEORGE YOUNGER

I beg to move to leave out Clause 2. My reason for proposing the omission of the Clause is that this Bill is merely an extension of the Police Superannuation Act of 1890. This question has been before the House for years, and the police have been denied what most people believe to be a reasonable amendment of that measure. Even now it does not, in Scotland, put the police in the same position as the police in England.

Mr. SPEAKER

Does the hon. Member's proposal increase the charge?

Mr. YOUNGER

There is no charge on public funds at all.

Lord HUGH CECIL

May I call your attention to the principal Act? The charges are to be met out of the Pension Fund, and it is filled by contributions made by the police constables themselves out of their wages. These contributions are aggregated, and they eventually make the fund on which the pensions are drawn, though it is true there are certain contributions from the Exchequer.

Mr. YOUNGER

The police contributions by the State are regulated and fixed by the Local Government Act of 1889, and cannot be increased. I do not think it would make any additional charge on the rates.

Mr. SPEAKER

Surely, if the date is advanced, the charges must come into operation sooner.

Mr. YOUNGER

Not unless the Bill proposes to increase the charges. The policeman would merely get the advantage a little sooner, and it would not necessarily add anything to the cost of maintaining the fund.

Mr. SPEAKER

Where is the money coming from?

Mr. YOUNGER

Out of the fund, which is not altered in any way.

Mr. SPEAKER

There are contributions to the fund from various sources, including the rates, and, therefore, if you give the policeman the benefit of the fund sooner, you increase the call on the rates. You cannot on the Report stage deal with any increase in the rates.

Mr. YOUNGER

My point is that it does not increase the rates.

Mr. SPEAKER

And my point is that it does.