HC Deb 29 July 1910 vol 19 cc2530-4

beg to move, "That the Proceedings upon the Accession Declaration Bill, the Agricultural Holdings (Scotland) Act (1908) Amendment Bill, the Jury Trials (Scotland) Bill, the Registration of Births, Deaths, and Marriages (Scotland) Amendment Bill, and the Education (Choice of Employment) Bill, and upon the Motion for the Adjournment (Winter Sittings) be not interrupted this day at Five o'clock or Half-past Five o'clock, and may be entered upon and proceeded with at any hour, though opposed."

Captain CRAIG

On the question of the suspension of the Half-past Five o'clock Rule to-day, I should like to ask the Prime Minister whether in the early part of this Session, and in a more recent part of it, when we were dealing with Bills not half so important or controversial as the measures in question to-day, the House has risen sometimes at half-past seven, sometimes at eight and sometimes at ten o'clock in the evening after giving very deliberate consideration to the measure before it. I think it will be in the recollection of the House that on several occasions hon. Members sitting behind the Treasury Bench made complaint that the course of business was such that the House was allowed to rise at that hour. Now, however, that a great constitutional change is proposed, it is thought fit by the Government to pass each day a Resolution to suspend the Eleven o'clock Rule, or on Friday the Five o'clock Rule. The conduct of business under such conditions is a scandal to the management of the Government. Why should Bills of much less importance receive long deliberation in the ordinary working hours up to eleven o'clock, while time is wasted when we might have been studying the terms of the Bill, and now, at the end of the Session, we are taking the discussion of this important matter in the small hours of the morning, when the reports of our Debates are not able to reach the outer parts of the country. Whatever change in the Constitution is proposed by the Government, we should be allowed to discuss it calmly and carefully during the working hours of Parliamentary time, and not smuggled through in the early hours of the morning. The position of some of my Friends from Ulster has been sincere, and it is the feeling of the people who sent us here that such a change was, first of all, unnecessary, and that if it was considered necessary by the Government, it should have proper and fit discussion, and time should be permitted for it to be thoroughly understood by the people, so that hon. Members in all parts of the House should receive the conscientious convictions of their constituents. This has been prevented, I believe, with an object. Owing to the hurry with which the matter was pressed forward, the Bill we discussed in Committee was not the Bill introduced by the Government.


This is not the time to debate that. The only question is whether we should suspend the Five o'clock Rule.

Captain CRAIG

I only wish to enter this protest against the manner in which we have been treated. I put questions to the Prime Minister, asking him to postpone the matter till the Autumn Session, when the deliberate opinon of the country might be obtained, but he has seen fit to

suspend the Eleven o'clock Rule on the two nights we have already had, and now he proposes to suspend the Five o'clock Rule. The attention of the House and the country requires to be drawn to the manner in which this grave constitutional change has been rushed through, and the people prevented from understanding its nature.


I am very sorry the hon. and gallant Gentleman should think that in this matter we are in any way departing from usage. The only departure we have made from usage is by not moving to suspend the Eleven o'clock Rule generally during the whole of the remainder of the Session. I have made no such Motion. I have only made it on particular days when the business of the day seemed to justify it. Really we have resorted much more sparingly to that particular invasion of the convenience of the House which has been customary in days gone by. It would not be in order to go into the merits of the Bill, but it could not have been introduced until after the unhappy demise of the Crown, and all references to what took place in the earlier days of the Session have no relevancy. It has been before the House and the country for a very considerable time, and it was in deference to the generally expressed wish to suit the general convenience that the later stages were taken before the Adjournment. I hope the House generally will agree that we have not in any way trespassed beyond the ordinary Parliamentary courtesies.

Question put.

The House divided: Ayes, 200; Noes, 101.

Division No. 152.] AYES. [12.35 p.m.
Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) Carr-Gomm, H. W. Dillon, John
Ainsworth, John Stirling Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) Donelan, Captain A.
Alden, Percy Cawley, H. T. (Lancs., Heywood) Doris, W.
Allen, Charles P. Chancellor, Henry George Edwards, Enoch
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry Chapple, Dr. William Allen Elverston, Harold
Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.) Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Falconer, James
Barnes, George N. Clancy, John Joseph Farrell, James Patrick
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.) Clough, William Ferens, T. R.
Benn, W. (Tower Hamlets, S. Geo.) Collins, Godfrey P. (Greenock) Ffrench, Peter
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) Field, William
Bottomley, Horatio Condon, Thomas Joseph Flavin, Michael Joseph
Bowles, T. Gibson Corbett, A. Cameron George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd
Boyle, D. (Mayo, N.) Cowan, W. H. Gibson, Sir James Puckering.
Brady, Patrick Joseph Craig, Herbert James (Tynemouth) Glanville, H. J.
Brigg, Sir John Crean, Eugene Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford
Brocklehurst, William B. Crosfield, Arthur H. Greenwood, G. G.
Bryce, J. Annan Cullinan, John Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward
Burns, Rt. Hon. John Dalziel, Sir James H. (Kirkcaldy) Guest, Major
Buxton, C. R. (Devon, Mid) Dawes, J. A. Gulland, John W.
Buxton, Noel (Norfolk, N.) Delany, William Hackett, J.
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Byles, William Pollard Devlin, Joseph Hall, Frederick (Normanton)
Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) Meagher, Michael Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford)
Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) Meehan, Patrick A. (Queen's Co.) Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) Millar, James Duncan Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Harwood, George Molloy, Michael Roe, Sir Thomas
Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) Montagu, Hon. E. S. Runciman. Rt. Hon. Walter
Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry Mooney, John J. Samuel Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland)
Haworth, Arthur A. Morgan, G Hay (Cornwall) Scanlan, Thomas
Hayden, John Patrick Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Scott, A. H. (Ashton-under-Lyne)
Hayward, Evan Muldoon, John Seely, Col., Right Hon. J. E. B.
Hazleton, Richard Munro, R. Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Healy, Maurice (Cork, N.E.) Murray, Capt. Hon. Arthur C. Shortt, Edward
Healy, Timothy Michael Nannetti, Joseph P. Smith, H. B. Lees (Northampton)
Helme, Norval Watson Neilson, Francis Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Nolan, Joseph Soares, Ernest Joseph
Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor Norton, Capt. Cecil W. Sutherland, J. E.
Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. Hussey, Sir T. Widens Sutton, John E.
Hogan, Michael Nuttall, Harry Talbot, Lord Edmund
Holt, Richard Darning O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Taylor, T. C. (Radcliffe)
Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) O'Brien, William (Cork, N.E.) Tennant, Harold John
Horne, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Thomas, James Henry (Derby)
Hughes, Spencer Leigh O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Toulmin, George
Illingworth Percy H. O'Doherty, Philip Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Jones Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) Twist, Henry
Joyce, Michael O'Dowd, John Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander
Keating, M. O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) Verney, Frederick William
Kelly, Edward O'Neill, Charles (Armagh, S.) Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Kennedy, Vincent Paul O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Walton, Sir Joseph
King, J. (Somerset, N.) O'Shee, James John Waring, Walter
Lambert, George Palmer, Godfrey (Mark) Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay
Lardner, James Carrige Rushe Parker, James (Halifax) Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Leach, Charles Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. Watt, Henry A.
Lehmann, Rudolf C. Phillips, John (Longford, S.) White, J. Dundas (Dumbartonshire)
Lewis, John Herbert Pickersgill, Edward Hare White, Sir Luke (York, E.R.)
Lundon, T. Pointer, Joseph White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Lyell, Charles Henry Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. Whyte, A. F. (Perth)
Lynch, A. A. Power, Patrick Joseph Williams, P. (Middlesbrough)
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.)
Macdonald. J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) Pringle, William M. R. Wilson, John (Durham, Mid)
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. Raphael, Herbert Henry Wilson, J. W. (Worcestershire, N.)
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Reddy, Michael Wing, Thomas
MacVeagh, Jeremiah Redmond, John E. (Waterford) Wood, T. M'Kinnon (Glasgow)
M'Callum. John M. Redmond, William (Clare)
M'Kean, John Rees, Sir J. D. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Master of Elibank and Mr. Dudley Ward.
McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Mallet, Charles Edward Roberts, George H. (Norwich)
Adams, Major William A. Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey Morton, Alpheus Cleophas
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R. Fisher, William Hayes Newdegate, F. A.
Arbuthnot, Gerald A. Fleming, Valentine Newton, Harry Kottingham
Ashley, Wilfred W. Fletcher, John Samuel Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William
Baird, J. L. Forster, Henry William Peel, Hon. William R. W. (Taunton)
Baker, Sir R. L. (Dorset, N.) Gibbs, George Abraham Pete, Basil Edward
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Gilmour, Captain J. Pollock, Ernest Murray
Barnston, Harry Glover, Thomas Primrose, Hon. Neil James
Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.) Goldman, C. S. Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Bathurst, Charles (Wilton) Gooch, Henry Cubitt Remnant, James Farquharson
Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks Grant, J. A. Rice, Hon. Walter Fitz-Uryan
Bird, A. Gretton, John Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Boyle, W, Lewis (Norfolk, Mid) Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) Rolleston, Sir John
Bridgeman, W. Clive Hamersley, Alfred St. George Ronaldshay, Earl of
Brunskill, G. F. Harmsworth, R. L. Royds, Edmund
Burgoyne, A. H. Harrison-Broadley, H. B. Sanders, Robert A.
Carlile, Edward Hildred Nobler, G. F. Sanderson, Lancelot
Castlereagh, Viscount Horne, Wm. E. (Surrey, Guildford) Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Horner, A. L. Starkey. John Ralph
Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. Houston, Robert Paterson Stewart, Gershom (Ches. Wirral)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Hunter, Sir Charles Roderick (Bath) Sykes, Alan John
Clyde, J. Avon Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North)
Cooper, Capt. Bryan R. (Dublin, S.) Jessel, Captain H. M. Thomson, W. Mitchell (Down, N.)
Cooper, R. A. (Walsall) Jewett, Frederick William Thorne, William (West Ham)
Cory, Sir Clifford John Kerr-Smiley, Peter Thynne, Lord Alexander
Craik, Sir Henry Knight, Capt. E. A. Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)
Croft, Henry Page Kyffin-Taylor, G. Ward, A. S. (Herts, Watford)
Dairymple, Viscount Lawson, Hon. Harry White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport)
Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. S. (Glasgow, E.) Lloyd, George Ambrose Willoughby, Major Hon. Claude
Dixon, Charles Harvey Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Du Cros, Arthur P. (Hastings) Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (Hanover Sq.) Wood, John (Stalybridge)
Duncannon. Viscount Lytteltol, Hon. J. C. (Wor. Droitwich)
Faber, George D. (Clapham) Magnus, Sir Philip TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Captain Craig and Mr. Mackinder.
Falle, Bertram Godfray Morpeth, Viscount
Fell, Arthur Morrison-Bell, Major A. C.