§ Mr. DORISasked the Chief Secretary if he can state upon what evidence the Local Government Board disallowed the old age pension of Martin M'Nicholas, of Cloontubret, Castlebar, county Mayo, which he had received without question for over twelve months; was any record of the pensioner's birth or age found in the Census Returns of 1841 or 1851; and, if no such record was found or could be found, how did the Local Government Board come to the decision, in face of the unanimous finding of the Castlebar (No. 1) subcommittee to the contrary, that M`Nicholas had not attained the statutory age?
§ Mr. REDMOND BARRYThe Local Government Board inform me that this man did not know the date of his birth, and the only evidence he produced was a certificate of his marriage in 1872. The Board had no option, therefore, but to disallow the pension.
§ Mr. DORISOn what evidence does the Local Government Board discontinue a pension granted regularly to a man twelve months before?
§ Mr. REDMOND BARRYIt is the duty of a claimant to prove his age to the satisfaction of the Local Government Board, and the decision of that body was that no evidence of a satisfactory character was forthcoming.
§ Mr. DORISI ask upon what evidence a pension which was in existence for twelve months was discontinued?
§ Mr. REDMOND BARRYThe man was called upon to prove that he was seventy years of age, and he failed.
§ Mr. DORISOn what grounds do you call upon a man who has proved his case twelve months previously to prove his age again, he having proved it to the satisfaction of the regular tribunal of the time?
§ Mr. REDMOND BARRYThere is plenty of authority for reopening the question of age. That has been decided by the courts in Ireland.
§ Mr. CULLINANIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the case of pensions an arrangement was come to between the Treasury and the old age pensions committee to have these questions decided by law and if need be taken to the House of Lords, and whether under these circumstances he will prevent the Local Government Board interfering with any of these pensions, pending a decision?
§ Mr. REDMOND BARRYI think the suggestion of my hon. Friend is scarcely practicable, because it would involve the payment of a pension in the meantime pending the decision, which might be held contrary to law.
§ Mr. MOOREWas this one of the numerous class of Nationalists who refused to accept a shilling from the British Treasury?
§ Mr. CONDONasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he can state by whose instructions and by what authority the following have been deprived of their old age pensions through their books having been taken from them, namely, Margaret Rock-hill, Anastasia Green, Bridget Walsh, Margaret Day, Margaret Cunningham, and Catherine Delany, all in the pension district of Clonmel and station of Carrick-on-Suir?
§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Hobhouse)The pension was stopped in each instance in pursuance of directions from the Board of Customs and Excise.
§ Mr. CONDONOn what ground were the pensions stopped by the Local Government Board?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEIn all these cases, unless the pension had been stopped, it would have been obligatory to recover the amount which was paid, and it was better to prevent it being paid than to pay it and get it back afterwards. It was not thought fitting to give the pension and then get it back afterwards.
§ Mr. CONDONI asked on what ground was the pension stopped?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThat is outside my province entirely. It was finally stopped on the authority of the Local Government Board.
§ Mr. CONDONTo whom shall I apply for information? I put a question to the Chief Secretary, and he requested me to 2327 put it to the representative of the Treasury. Then I put it to the representative of the Treasury, and he is not able to give me the information.
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI beg the hon. Member's pardon. I have answered the question. The pensions have been stopped by the authority of the Board of Customs and Excise.
§ Mr. CONDONWhat power have they to stop the pensions?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThat is to be found in the Old Age Pensions Act and the Regulations made under it.
§ Mr. HAYDENasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that the Castlerea sub-pension committee granted an old age pension of 5s. a week to Thomas Montgomery, of Corrastown, Ballintubber, that the pension officer lodged an appeal on the ground that the man was not the required age, and the Local Government Board refused the pension, notwithstanding the following circumstances: that, it being impossible to find evidence of age from the Census Returns of 1841 or 1851, applicant produced the baptismal certificate of his eldest child, showing that the child is now fifty years of age; produced his marriage certificate; and that the committee were fully satisfied that applicant was the required age; and, having regard to the fact that applicant has offspring fifty years of age, whether the Local Government Board will assume the age of seventy years established and grant the pension?
§ Mr. REDMOND BARRYThe hon. Member appears to be misinformed as to the evidence in this case. Montgomery's name could not be traced in the Census Returns, he produced no marriage certificate, and the baptismal certificate of his eldest child shows that she is now only forty-five years of age.