§ Mr. PATRICK O'BRIEN (for Mr. Patrick White)asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he will state what is the total amount repaid to the Treasury out of advances made under various Acts for the erection of labourers' cottages in Ireland; whether the Irish Land Commission has advanced the total amount authorised under Section 16 of the Labourers Act, 1906; if so, whether further sums can be advanced out of the Irish Land Purchase Fund without special legislation; and, if not, what steps the Government propose to take to continue the working of the Act of 1906 on the same financial basis as heretofore; and whether there is anything to prevent the National Debt Commissioners from making temporary advances to preserve the continuity of the policy of the Act, pending a new flotation of guaranteed land stock, or legislation if required?
§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Hobhouse)Loans made by the Board of Works for the erection of labourers' cottages are repaid on the annuity system, and the amount of the sinking fund included in the annuity varies with the rate of interest charged at the time loans are made, and the term of repayment of such loans. It is not, therefore, possible to say what the amount of the sinking fund contained in the annuity as a whole is, without calculations involving considerable labour and time. The number of loans made is 1,220 at rates of interest varying from 2¾ per cent, to 4¼ per cent, per annum, and periods varying from twenty-five to sixty-eight and a half years. Allowing for accumulations, the total amount repaid to the board since the beginning of the service out of the total 1311 sum of £3,460,556 advanced was, up to 31st March last, £698,355. Under the Labourers Act, 1906, loans are made by the Land Commission for the erection of labourers' cottages by annuity extending over a period of sixty-eight and a half years at a fixed rate of interest for the whole term of 2¾ per cent, with a sinking fund of ½ per cent, in addition. I am informed that the total amount of the sinking fund repaid to date is £337. The whole amount authorised under Section 16 of the Labourers (Ireland) Act, 1906, has been either advanced or earmarked to existing schemes. No further sums in excess of 4¼ millions could be advanced by the Irish Land Commission under that Section without special legislation, and it is not intended to propose such legislation at present.
§ Mr. LONSDALEDo I understand that it is impossible for the National Debt Commissioners to make temporary advances?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI do not think that there is any need to do so. I am informed that it will take three or four years to get through the money that is available for the cottages which it is intended to build under this section. There is plenty of money.
§ Mr. MOOREIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that owing to Liberal finance in every rural district in Ireland there are schemes which cannot be proceeded with on account of the money not being forthcoming?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThat cannot be the case because there are a great many cottages, 5,000 or 6,000, remaining to be built, and there is plenty of money for them.
§ Mr. MOOREBut with regard to further schemes under the Labourers Acts which day by day are being put forward and which the Local Government Board are suspending because there is no money?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSENo such representation as that has reached us.
§ Mr. JOHN REDMONDWith reference to the right hon. Gentleman's statement that it is not proposed at present to introduce legislation on this question, is he not aware of the fact that the Chief Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Birrell) within the last couple of months stated that the question of introducing the necessary legislation 1312 to enable the labourers' schemes to go on was under the consideration of the Government, and that he had hopes that legislation would be introduced?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSENo representations ever reached me from the Irish Office.
§ Mr. JOHN REDMONDWould it not be well that the Treasury in dealing with questions connected with the Irish Office should communicate with the Irish Office and find out how the matter stands?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI think in this case the representations ought to come from the persons who want to borrow the money. If it is necessary to spend this money at all the representations should come from the people who desire to spend it. It is not the business of the Treasury to find out whether people want to spend money.
§ Mr. JOHN REDMONDThat is not exactly the point of my question. My question to the right hon. Gentleman is this: When questions are addressed to the Treasury dealing with Irish matters of this sort, is not it the duty of the Treasury, before giving an answer in this House, to communicate with the Irish Office and find out how the facts really stand?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThat is so. I have communicated with the Irish Office, and it is in accordance with the information received from them that I have given the answer which I have given to the question on the Paper.
§ Mr. MOOREIs it a well-settled principle now that the Irish rural district councils are to communicate directly with the right hon. Gentleman or with his Department, and not with the Irish Local Government Board, which has been the practice for the last forty years?
§ Mr. DILLONAre we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman that the Irish Office has informed him that no applications are now before the Irish authorities for loans under the Labourers Acts?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSENo. I have made no such statement as that. What I said was that there was still some money available to build cottages, and that it would take two or three or four years to get to the end of these loans.
§ Mr. DILLONWhat has that to say to-the applications now made?