§ Mr. O'DOWDasked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he was aware that John M'Morrow, of Lavally, Ballintogher, county Sligo, Riverstown sub-committee, was deprived of his pension of 5s. per week by the pension officer, on the 11th ultimo, on the ground that his name does not appear in either the Census Returns of 1841 or 1851; and, if so, whether, in view 204 of the fact that this old man is well-known to be eighty years, as can be proved by a number of respectable witnesses in any court, his pension will be restored to him?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI find that the Local Government Board decided in this case, on the appeal of the pension officer, that the pensioner was not entitled to a pension, as he had not reached the age of seventy. That decision cannot be reviewed by me, but if Mr. M'Morrow is now in a position to produce satisfactory evidence of age, ft is open to him to make a fresh claim.
§ Mr. THOMAS O'DONNELLasked the Secretary to the Treasury by what authority under the Pensions Act did the Board of Customs prescribe in their circular of February, 1909, that where the search officer reports that the claimant's name cannot be traced in the Census.Returns the pension officer should report that no evidence of age has been produced, and that the claim cannot properly be allowed; and does this circular allow any discretion to the pension officer or to the local pension committee?
§ Mr. THOMAS O'DONNELLalso asked if pension officers had been ordered to report that no satisfactory evidence of age had been produced, and that therefore the claim could not be allowed, in cases where claimants' names could not be found in the Census Returns; and whether it was intended to permanently deprive all such people of their right to a pension because they could not produce documentary evidence?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI will answer these two questions together. The question as to whether a person who can produce no documentary evidence of age is entitled to a pension is one for the decision of the local pension committee or of the Local Government Board on appeal. This position is not affected by the circular referred to, which was issued for the guidance of pension officers. It gives to pension officers discretionary powers in regard to-lodging appeals. The remaining points are dealt with in the reply which I gave to-the hon. Member on this subject on the 31st ult.
§ Mr. CULLINANIs it not a fact that in all such cases where there is no documentary evidence of age and where the pension officer makes a ruling against the claim, the Local Government Board refuse to go into this question and refuse to give-pensions in' any circumstances?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe hon. Gentleman has asked me what is the practice of another Department over which I have no control or influence and with which I am not connected. That information I cannot give. I give all the information concerning the Department with which I am connected. I cannot give information about another Department.
§ Mr. CULLINANCan the right hon. Gentleman refer to the Local Government Board in such cases or can he say who is responsible to this House to tell us which body it is that is debarring these people from getting their pensions; and in view of the fact that the Chief Secretary for Ireland is to receive a deputation from Ireland on Thursday next, will he have the matter cleared up by that time?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSENobody, as far as I know, is debarring anybody from a single pension. A great many people think they are entitled to pensions who are not so entitled. I do not think that any Department, the Local Government Board or any other, is entitled to give a pension to any person who cannot prove that he is entitled.
§ Mr. THOMAS O'DONNELLIs it a fact that in the instructions issued by the Treasury to pension officers it was definitely stated that where documentary evidence is not forthcoming, either in the local registers or the Census Returns, they are directed and instructed not to give pensions to such persons?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEI have endeavoured to explain—I suppose unsuccessfully—that it is not in the power of the pension officer to give a pension. That is the act of the pension committee or of the Local Government Board. That is the only answer I can give to the question asked me.
§ Mr. THOMAS O'DONNELLIs it not a fact that in the instructions issued by the Treasury to pension officers a direction is given to appeal in every case against claimants who have not produced documentary evidence of age?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThat is quite a different question from the former question which was whether the Treasury had instructed pension officers not to give pensions. Pension officers are instructed that where there is not sufficient or good documentary evidence, to carry the case to the higher tribunal, namely, the Irish Local Government Board.