HC Deb 01 May 1899 vol 70 cc978-93

Mr. Anstruther nominated a Member of the Committee.—(Sir William Walrond.)

Motion made, and (Question proposed— That Mr. Chaplin be one other member of the Committee."—(Sir William Walrond.)

MR. BARTLEY (Islington, N.)

said he had been under the impression that an Amendment was to be moved to the effect that the Colonial Secretary should take the Chairmanship of the Committee. He desired to say one word in the hope that that arrangement would still be carried out. Many honourable Members were keenly interested in this subject, and, although he had not the honour of being on the Committee, he trusted that it would be successful. They were, indeed, most anxious that it should succeed, for they felt that the question of Chairman of this Committee was one of immense importance. He had worked for many years to bring the question to a practical issue long before it became a political question, and the decision of Chairman of this third and last Committee would be of very great importance to the movement. The Chairman should have a great knowledge of poor law questions and the social condition of the people, and be a kind of expert on the financial difficulties of the Old-Age Pension schemes, which were very great. He hoped he was not going too far when he said that it would test the qualities of the very best man on the Government Bench to conduct the Committee efficiently and successfully. The Colonial Secretary had made the subject his own, and therefore it was very desirable that he should be a Member of the Committee. If the Committee failed to solve the problem, he ventured to think it would be a very great blow to the Government. Both Parties were pledged to consider the question, but the Party at present in power had a very large majority, and he felt that if the question could be carried out in such a way as would promote thrift and self-reliance amongst the people they were bound to carry it out. No doubt the Colonial Secretary would say that he had a great deal to do. He had, but he had been occupied lately with the Small Houses (Acquisition of Ownership) Bill, which no doubt was an excellent Measure, but he would ask him whether he was really off with the old love of pensions and on with the new of small houses. They could not for a moment suppose he was on with both. The credit of the Government was concerned in this Committee, and, as he himself wished the Committee to be successful, he suggested that the Colonial Secretary should be a Member and Chairman of the Committee.


The honourable Member cannot move the insertion of the name of the right honourable Gentleman, because he has not given notice of any such Motion.


said he would put himself in order by moving to leave out the name of Mr. Anstruther.


I am put in some difficulty by the Speaker's ruling in answering the speech of my honourable Friend, for the speech has not been at all directed to the leaving out of one name, but to the putting in of another, which my honourable Friend cannot move. If I answer the argument I shall not be dealing with the Motion. But I may, perhaps, say that this is an entirely unprecedented course. I have known many Motions for the omission of a name, but the Motion to insert a name is, so far as I know, entirely novel. It would be invidious and quite out of place to discuss the respective qualifications of the 670 Members of the House who are, no doubt, competent to serve on the Committee. With regard to my right hon-

ourable Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, it is perfectly true that he has, more than anyone else, in or out of this House, identified himself with this question, and the Committee would be great gainers if he would serve. But my right honourable Friend has got already upon his shoulders as heavy a load of official responsibility as anyone of his colleagues, and to ask him to undertake, day by day, the work of a Committee which, however closely related to his general views of public policy, has nothing to do with the office he holds, seems to me to be asking my right honourable Friend to accept a burden which ought not to be put upon him. The question of the Chairmanship of the Committee does not arise on the Motion before the House. It is for the Committee, and the Committee alone, to decide which of its Members shall preside over them. No doubt it would have been to the advantage of everybody concerned if my right honourable Friend could have joined the Committee, but it is impossible to ask him to undertake that immense load in addition to what he already bears.


said he had no desire to press his Motion.

The name of Mr. Anstruther was then agreed to.

Motion made, and Queston put— That Mr. Chaplin be one other Member of the Committee.

MR. WARNER (Stafford, Lichfield)


The House divided:—Ayes 254: Noes 82.—(Division List No. 109.)

Acland-Hood. Capt. Sir A. F. Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(Manch.) Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.
Aird, John Balfour, Rt Hn G. W. (Leeds) Biddulph, Michael
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Balfour, Rt Hn J. B. (Clack.) Bill, Charles
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Banbury, Frederick George Billson, Alfred
Austin, Sir J. (Yorkshire) Barnes, Frederic Gorell Bolitho, Thomas Berford
Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy Barton, Dunbar Plunkett Bonsor, Hy. Cosmo Orme
Bailey, James (Walworth) Bathhurst, Hon. Allen Benj. Boscawen, Arthur Griffith
Ballie, J. E. B. (Inverness) Beach, Rt Hn Sir M.H.(Bristol) Bowles, Capt. H.F.(Middle.)
Baird, John G. Alexander Begg, Ferdinand Faithfull Brassey, Albert
Baker, Sir John Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Broderick, Rt. Hn. St. John
Balcarres, Lord Beresford, Lord Charles Bryce, Rt. Hon. James
Baldwin, Alfred Bethell, Commander Burt, Thomas
Butcher, John George Hardy, Laurence Pender, Sir James
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Hazell, Walter Penn, John
Carlile, William Walter Heath, James Percy, Earl
Carmichael, Sir T. D. Gibson Heaton, John Henniker Pierpoint, Robert
Cavendish, R. F (N. Lancs.) Hemphill, Rt. Hn. C. H. Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbysh.) Henderson, Alexander Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford,E.) Hickman, Sir Alfred Pretyman, Ernest George
Cecil, Lord H. (Greenwich) Hoare, E. B (Hampstead) Priestley, Sir W. O. (Edin.)
Chaloner, Capt. R. G. W. Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) Purvis, Robert
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Bir.) Hobhouse, Henry Rankin, Sir James
Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) Holland, Hn. L. R. (Bow) Rasch, Major F. Carne
Chelsea, Viscount Howard, Joseph Redmond, William (Clare)
Cochrane, Hn. T. H. A. E. Howell, William Tudor Renshaw, Charles Bine
Coddington, Sir William Hozier, Hon. J. H. Cecil Rentoul, James Alexander
Coghill, Douglas Harry Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir M. W.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Hudson, Geo. Bickersteth Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. T.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Jebb, Richard Claverhouse Rothschild, Hon. Lionel W.
Colston, C. E. H. Athole Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick Round, James
Cook, F. Lucas (Lambeth) Johnson-Ferguson, J. E. Russell, Gen. F. S. (Chelt.)
Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) Johnston, Wm. (Belfast) Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Corbett, A. C. (Glasgow) Johnstone, H. (Sussex) Samuel, Hy. S. (Limehouse)
Courtney, Rt. Hon. L. H. Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea) Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard
Cox, Irwin E. B. (Harrow) Kay-Shuttleworth, RtHn.SirU. Seely, Charles Hilton
Cranborne, Viscount Kimber, Henry Sharpe, Wm. Ed. T.
Cross, Herbert S. (Bolton) King, Sir Henry Seymour Shaw, Thos. (Hawick B.)
Curzon, Viscount Laurie, Lieut.-General Shaw-Stewart, M.H.(Renf.)
Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh Lawrence, Sir E. D. (Corn.) Sidebottom, T. H. (Stalybr.)
Dalkeith, Earl of Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool) Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Lawson, J Grant (Yorks.) Simeon, Sir Barrington
Denny, Colonel Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry) Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. Leigh-Bennett, H. Currie Smith. Abel H. (Christchurch)
Digby, J. K. D. Wingfield- Leighton, Stanley Smith, Hn. W.F.D. (Strand)
Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. D. Llewellyn,E. H. (Somerset) Spencer, Ernest
Dorington, Sir J. Edward Lockwood, Lt. Col. A. R. Stanley, Hn. A. (Ormskirk)
Doughty, George Loder, Gerald W. Erskine Stanley, E. J. (Somerset)
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) Stanley, Hy. H. (Lambeth)
Doxford, William Theodore Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Drage, Geoffrey Lopes, Hy. Yarde Buller Stephens, Hy. Charles
Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. Lowe, Francis William Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Hart Lowther, Rt. Hn. J. (Kent) Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Loyd, Archie Kirkman Strauss, Arthur
Elliot, Hn. A. R. Douglas Lucas-Shadwell, William Strutt, Hon. C. Hedley
Ellis, John Edward Lyell, Sir Leonard Sturt, Hon. H. Napier
Evans, S. T. (Glamorgan) Macartney, W. G. Ellison Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Fardell, Sir T George Macdona, John Cumming Talbot,Rt Hn J.G.(Oxf'd Uni.)
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn E. Maclean, James Mackenzie Thorburn, Walter
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Man.) Maclure, Sir John William Tollemache, Henry James
Firbank, Joseph Thomas McCalmont, H.L.B. (Cambs.) Tomlinson, W. E. Murray
Fisher, William Hayes Melver. Sir L. (Edinburgh, W.) Tritton, Charles Ernest
FitzGerald, Sir R. Penrose- Marks. Harry H. Usborne, Thomas
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Maxwell, Rt. Hn. Sir H. E. Valentia, Viscount
Fletcher, Sir Henry Mellor, Col. (Lancashire) Verney, Hon. R. Greville
Flower, Ernest Mellor, Rt. Hn. J.W.(Yorks.) Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H.
Folkestone, Viscount Melville, Beresford Valentine Wallace, Robert (Edinburgh)
Foster, Sir W. (Derby Co.) Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Warr, Augustus Frederick
Fowler, Rt. Hn. Sir Henry Middlemore. J. Throgmorton Webster, R, G. St. Pancras)
Fry, Lewis Milbank, Sir Powlett C. J. Webster,Sir R.E.(I of Wight)
Galloway, William Johnson Milward, Colonel Victor Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E.
Garfit, Wiliam Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Williams, Col. R. (Dorset)
Gibbs,Hn.A.G.H.(City of Lond.) More, R. J. (Shropshire) Williams, J. Powell (Birm.)
Gilliat; John Saunders Morgan, J. L. (Carmarthen) Willox, Sir J. Archibald
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. H. J. Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks)
Godson, Sir Augustus F. Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) Wodehouse, Rt Hn E.R.(Bath)
Goldsworthy, Major-General Murray, Col. W. (Bath) Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir J. E. Newark, Viscount Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo.'s) Newdigate, Francis Alexander Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Goulding, Edward Alfred Nicholson, William Graham Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Staff. Young, Com. (Berks, E.)
Green, W. D. (Wednesbury) O'Neill, Hon. R. Torrens
Greene, W. R, (Cambs.) Orr-Ewing, Chas. Lindsay TELLERS FOR THE AYES
Gull, Sir Cameron Palmer, Geo. W. (Reading) Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Gunter, Colonel Paulton, James Mellor
Haldane, Richard Burdon Pease, A. E. (Cleveland)
Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord G. Pease, H. P. (Darlington)
Hanson, Sir Reginald Pease, J. A. (Northumb.)
Allison, Robert Andrew Holland, W. H. (York, W.R.) Power, Patrick Joseph
Ambrose, Robert Horniman, Frederick John Randell, David
Ashton, Thomas Gair Humphreys-Owen, A. C. Rickett, J. Compton
Barlow, John Emmott Jacoby, James Alfred Roberts, J. Bryn (Eifion)
Bartley, George C. T. Joicey, Sir James Roberts, J. H. (Denbighs.)
Blake, Edward Jones, W. (Carnarvonshire) Robertson, E. (Dundee)
Bowles, T. G. (King's Lynn) Kearley, Hudson E. Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarsh.)
Brunner, Sir J. Tomlinson Kinloch, Sir J. G. Smyth Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Kitson, Sir James Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Caldwell, James Labouchere, Henry Souttar, Robinson
Cameron, Sir C. (Glasgow) Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'land) Spicer, Albert
Carvill, Patrick G. Hamilton Leng, Sir John Stevenson, Francis S.
Channing, Francis Allston Leuty, Thomas Richmond Strachey, Edward
Crombie, John William Lewis, John Herbert Sullivan, D. (Westmeath)
Daly, James Macaleese, Daniel Tennant, Harold John
Dillon, John M'Hugh, P. A. (Leitrim) Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Donelan, Captain A. Maddison, Fred. Ure, Alexander
Douglas, C. M. (Lanark) Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Wallace, Robert (Perth)
Duckworth, James Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel) Wedderburn, Sir William
Evans, Sir F. H. (South'ton) Morley, Rt Hn J. (Montrose) Weir, James Galloway
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Morton, E. J. C (Devonport) Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.)
Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis Moulton, John Fletcher Wills, Sir William Henry
Goddard, Daniel Ford Norton, Capt. Cecil William Wilson, John (Govan)
Gold, Charles Nussey, Thomas Willans Woods, Samuel
Gourley, Sir E. Temperley O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.)
Gurdon, Sir Wm. Brampton Oldroyd, Mark TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Harcourt, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. Pease, Sir J. W. (Durham) Mr. Warner and Mr. McKenna.
Harwood, George Perks, Robert William
Hayne, Rt. Hn. Chas. Seale- Pirie, Duncan V.

The name of Mr. Chaplin was then added.

Motion made, and Question proposed— That Mr. Cripps be one other member of the Committee."—(Sir William Walrond.)

MR. COURTNEY (Cornwall, Bodmin)

said that when he came down to the House he was under the impression that the nomination of the Committee would be the first Order of the Day, and was quite unaware that it would come under the preliminary notices, and be subject to the rule allowing a speech of 10 minutes for and against. The situation was so embarrassing that if it were possible he would move the adjournment of the Debate. He conceived that under such a Motion Members would be relieved from their embarrassment, and there would be a Division somewhat different in character from the one just declared. It was useless to disguise the fact. It was recognised on all hands, and, with no desire to be disrespectful to the honourable Members who were proposed for the Committee, a Committee so constituted would be quite unequal to the work to be entrusted to it. He was sorry this should be so, and he had known former occasions when in similar circumstances a Committee was constituted in another form. In the situation in which they were now it was impossible to make such a proposal, because Members were debarred from moving the adjournment of the House, a Motion which would produce a Debate in which the judgment of the House would be manifested. It rested with the Speaker, if he might respectfully remind the right honourable Gentleman, to determine whether there should be a Division on the question of adjournment if it appeared that the Rule caused public inconvenience. The whole question of the composition of the Committee must then be brought up in proper form. In the present position, the House could only divide upon names, and in the end a Committee would be appointed; in respect to which he was satisfied he expressed the feeling of nine-tenths of the House when he said it would be quite unequal to the very grave and weighty business to be entrusted to it.


I will put the Question of adjournment because a right honourable Gentleman of position in the House, with apparently substantial support, desires it should be put, and I think it is not unreasonable that the House should have the opportunity of saying if the Debate should be adjourned or not. But I protest against the suggestion that in so doing I express any opinion of my own.

Question put— That this Debate be now adjourned.

The House divided:—Ayes 136; Noes 218.—(Division List No.110.)

Allison, Robert Andrew Goulding, Edward Alfred O'Connor, Jas.(Wicklow, W.)
Ambrose, Robert Gourley, Sir Edwd. Temperley Oldroyd, Mark
Ashton, Thomas Gair Gunter, Colonel Palmer, Geo. Wm. (Reading)
Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire) Gurdon, Sir Wm. Brampton Paulton, James Mellor
Baker, Sir John Haldane, Richard Burdon Pease, Alfred E. (Cleveland)
Balfour, Rt Hn J. Blair(Clackm.) Harcourt, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. Pease, Joseph A. (Northumb.)
Barlow, John Emmott Harwood, George Pease, Sir Jos. W. (Durham)
Bartley, George C. T. Hayne, Rt. Hn. Chas. Seale- Perks, Robert William
Billson, Alfred Hazell, Walter Pirie, Duncan V.
Blake, Edward Hedderwick, Thos. Chas. H. Power, Patrick Joseph
Bowles, T. Gibson(King'sLynn) Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Chas. H. Price, Robert John
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Hobhouse, Henry Randell, David
Bryce, Rt. Hn. James Holland, Wm. H.(York, W. R.) Redmond, Jno. E(Waterford)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Horniman, Frederick John Renshaw, Charles Bine
Burt, Thomas Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Rickett, J. Compton
Buxton, Sydney Charles Jacoby, James Alfred Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Caldwell, James Johnson-Ferguson, JabezEdw. Roberts, Jno. H. (Denbighs.)
Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) Joicey, Sir James Robertson,Edmund (Dundee)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Carmichael, Sir T. D. Gibson- Jones, Wm.(Carnarvonshire) Sinclair, Capt. John(Forfarsh.)
Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton Kay-Shuttleworth, RtHnSirU. Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Causton, Richard Knight Kearley, Hudson E. Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Channing, Francis Allston Kinloch, Sir John George Smyth Souttar, Robinson
Clancy, John Joseph Kitson, Sir James Spicer, Albert
Clough, Walter Owen Labouchere, Henry Stevenson, Francis S.
Coghill, Douglas Harry Lawson, Sir Wilfrid(Cumb'ld.) Stirling-Maxwell, Sir Jno. M.
Crombie, John William Leng, Sir John Strachey, Edward
Daly, James Leuty, Thomas Richmond Strauss, Arthur
Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles Lewis, John Herbert Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Dillon, John Lough, Thomas Tennant, Harold John
Donelan, Captain A. Loyd, Archie Kirkman Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Douglas, Charles M.(Lanark) Lyell, Sir Leonard Ure, Alexander
Duckworth, James Macaleese, Daniel Wallace, Robert (Edinburgh)
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. Hart McArthur, Wm. (Cornwall) Wallace, Robert (Perth)
Elliot, Hn. A. Ralph Douglas McKenna, Reginald Warner, Thos. Courtenay T.
Ellis, John Edward Maddison, Fred. Wedderburn, Sir William
Evans, Samuel T.(Glamorgan) Mappin, Sir Fredk. Thorpe Weir, James Galloway
Evans, Sir Francis H(South'ton Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W.(Yorks.) Williams, Jno. Carvell (Notts.)
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Wills, Sir William Henry
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) Montagu, Sir S.(Whitechapel) Wilson, John (Govan)
Foster, Sir Walter(Derby Co.) Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen) Wolff Gustav Wilhelm
Fowler, Rt. Hn. Sir Henry Morley, Rt. Hn. Jno.(Montrose) Woods, Samuel
Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis Morton, Edw. J. C.(Devonport)
Galloway, William Johnson Moulton, John Fletcher TELLERS FOR THE AYES
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. Jno. Norton, Capt. Cecil Wm. Mr. Courtney and Mr. Strutt.
Goddard, Daniel Ford Nussey, Thomas Willans
Gold, Charles O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Banbury, Frederick George Boscawen, Arthur Griffith
Aird, John Barnes, Frederic Gorell Boulnois, Edmund
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Barton, Dunbar Plunket Bowles, Capt. H.F.(Middlesex)
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Brassey, Albert
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Beach, Rt Hn Sir M.H.(Bristol) Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John
Bailey, James (Walworth) Begg, Ferdinand Faithfull Batcher. John George
Baillie, James E. B. (Inverness) Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Carlile, William Walter
Baird, John Geo. Alexander Beresford, Lord Charles Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.)
Balcarres, Lord Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbyshire)
Baldwin, Alfred Biddulph, Michael Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(Manch'r) Bigwood, James Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W.(Leeds Bill, Charles Chaloner, Captain R. G. W.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.(Birm.) Howard, Joseph Purvis, Robert
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Wore'r. Howell, William Tudor Quilter, Sir Cuthbert
Chaplin, Rt. Hn. Henry Hozier, Hn. Jas. Henry Cecil Rankin, Sir James
Chelsea, Viscount Hubbard, Hn. Evelyn Rasch, Major Frederic Carne
Cechrane, Hr. Thos. H. A. E. Hudson, George Bickersteth Redmond, William (Clare)
Coddington, Sir William Jebb, Richard Claverhouse Rentoul, James Alexander
Cohen. Benjamin Louis Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.
Collings, Rt. Hn. Jesse Johnston, William (Belfast) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) Kimber, Henry Rothschild, Hn. Lionel Walter
Cooke, C.W. Radcliffe(Heref'd) King, Sir Henry Seymour Round, James
Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow) Laurie, Lieut.-General Russell, Gen. F.S.(Chelt'ham.)
Cox, Irwin Edw. B. (Harrow) Lawrence, Sir E. Durning(Corn. Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Cranborne, Viscount Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Samuel, Henry S. (Limehouse)
Cripps, Charles Alfred Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Cross, Herb. Shepherd(Bolton) Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard
Curzon, Viscount Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Seely, Charles Hilton
Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh Leighton, Stanley Sharpe, William Edward T.
Dalkeith, Earl of Llewellyn, Evan H.(Somerset) Shaw-Stewart, M.H.(Renfrew)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Sidebottom, T.H.(Stalybridge)
Davenport, W. Bromley- Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.)
Dickson-Poynder, Sir Jno. P. Long, Col. Chas. W.(Evesham) Simeon, Sir Barrington
Digby, Jno. K. D. Wingfield- Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(L'pool.) Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller Smith, Abel H.(Christchurch)
Dorington, Sir John Edward Lowe, Francis William Smith, Hn. W. F. D.(Strand)
Doughty, George Lowther, Rt. Hn. James(Kent) Spencer, Ernest
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers Lucas-Shadwell, William Stanley, Hn. Arthur(Ormskirk)
Doxford, William Theodore Macartney, W. G. Ellison Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Drage, Geoffrey Macdona, John Cumming Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth)
Duncombe, Hn. Hubert V. Maclean, James Mackenzie Stanley, Lord (Lanes.)
Fardell, Sir T. George Maclure, Sir John William Stephens, Henry Charles
Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edward Martin, Richard Biddulph Stewart, Sir Mark J.M'Taggart
Fergusson, RtHnSir J.(Manc'r.) McCalmont. H. L.B.(Cambs.) Sturt, Hn. Humphry Napier
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne MeIver, Sir Lewis(Edin.,W.) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Firbank, Joseph Thomas Marks, Harry H. Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Ox.Univ.)
Fisher, William Hayes Maxwell, Rt. Hn. Sir Herb. E. Thorburn, Walter
FitzGerald, Sir Robt. Penrose- Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Tollemache, Henry James
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Melville, Beresford Valentine Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Fletcher, Sir Henry Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Tritton, Charles Ernest
Flower, Ernest Middlemore. Jno. Throgmorton Usborne, Thomas
Folkestone, Viscount Milner, Sir Frederick George. Valentia, Viscount
Fry, Lewis Milward, Colonel Victor Verney, Hn. Richard Greville
Garfit, William Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent)
Gibbs, Hn. A.G.H.(C.ofLond.) More, Robt. Jasper(Shropshire) Warr, Augustus Frederick
Giles, Charles Tyrrell Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptf'd.) Webster, Sir R. E. (I. of Wight)
Gilliat, John Saunders Murray, Rt Hn. A. Graham(Bute Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E.
Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. Murray, Col. Wm. (Bath) Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Goldsworthy, Major-General Newark, Viscount Williams, Col. R. (Dorset
Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon Newdigate, Francis Alexander Williams, Jos. Powell (Birm.)
Goschen, RtHnG.J.(StGeorge's Nicholson, William Graham Willox, Sir John Archibald
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.)
Green, Walford D.(Wednes'y.) O'Neill, Hn. Robert Torrens Wodehouse. Rt. Hn. E.R.(Bath)
Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Gull, Sir Cameron Pease, Herb. Pike(Darlington) Wyndham-Quin, Major W.H.
Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George Pender, Sir James Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Hanson, Sir Reginald Penn, John Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Hardy, Laurence Percy, Earl Young, Commander(Berks,E.)
Heath, James Pierpoint, Robert
Heaton, John Henniker Platt-Higgins, Frederick TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Henderson, Alexander Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Hoare, Edw. Brodie(Hampstead Pretyman, Ernest George
Holland, Hn. Lionel R.(Bow) Priestley, Sir W. Overend(Edin.

Original Question put, and agreed to.

The name of Mr. Cripps was then added to the Committee.

On the question that Mr.Davitt's name be added,

MR. J. ELLIS (Nottingham, Rushcliffe)

expressed the opinion that the First Lord of the Treasury was stretching the Ten Minutes Rule too far, by putting under it a question for which it was never intended.

The name was added to the Committee.

Motion made, and Question put— That Lord Edmond Fitzmaurice be one other member of the Committee.

SIR W. LAWSON (Cumberland, (Cockermouth)

said he objected to the acceptance of the name. This Committee was not one on which any self-respecting Liberal ought to serve. It was nothing more than a transparent sham, for if it had any object at all, its only object was the rehabilitation of the Secretary for the Colonies. They used to hear about Ministerial responsibility—


Order, order! The honourable baronet must confine himself to the question whether the name should be added.


said he was quite satisfied. He had said quite enough.

Question put— That Lord Edmond Fitzmaurice be one other Member of the Committee.

The House divided:—Ayes 280; Noes 77.—(Division List No. 111.)

Acland-Hood, Cpt. Sir Alex. F. Chaplin, Rt. Hn. Henry Fowler, Rt. Hn. Sir Henry
Aird, John Chelsea., Viscount Fry, Lewis
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Claney, John Joseph Galloway, William Johnson
Ashton, Thomas Gair Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. Garfit, William
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John Coddington, Sir William Gibbs, Hn. A.G.H.(C.ofLond.)
Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire) Coghill, Douglas Harry Giles, Charles Tyrrell
Baget, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Cohen, Benjamin Louis Gilliat, John Saunders
Bailey, James (Walworth) Collings, Rt. Hn. Jesse Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk.
Baillie. Jas. E. B. (Inverness) Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Goldsworthy, Major-General
Baird, John Geo. Alexander Compton, Lord Alwyne Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon
Balcarres, Lord Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) Goschen, Rt Hn G.J.(St George's
Baldwin, Alfred Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd) Goulding, Edward Alfred
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(Manch'r) Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley
Balfour. RtHnGeraldW.(Leeds) Courtney, Rt. Hn. Leonard H. Gray, Ernest (West Ham)
Balfour, Rt Hn J. Blair(Clackm. Cox, Irwin Edw. B. (Harrow) Green, Walford D (Wednes'y.)
Banbury, Frederick George Cranborne, Viscount Greene, W. Raymond(Cambs.)
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Cripps, Charles Alfred Gull, Sir Cameron
Bartley, George C. T. Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) Gunter, Colonel
Barton, Dunbar Plunket Curzon, Viscount Haldane, Richard Burdon
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George
Beach, Rt Hn Sir M.H.(Bristol) Dalkeith, Earl of Hanson, Sir Reginald
Begg, Ferdinand Faithfull Dalrymple, Sir Charles Hardy, Laurence
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Davenport, W. Bromley- Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-
Beresford, Lord Charles Denny, Colonel Hazell, Walter
Bethell, Commander Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Heath, James
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Digby, John K. D. Wingfield- Heaton, John Henniker
Biddulph, Michael Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Chas. II.
Bigwood, James Dorington, Sir John Edward Henderson, Alexander
Bill, Charles Doughty, George Hoare, Edw. Brodie (Hampstd.)
Bolitho, Thomas Bedford Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers Hoare, Samuel (Norwich)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Doxford, William Theodore Hobhouse, Henry
Boulnois, Edmund Drage, Geoffrey Holland, Hn. Lionel R. (Bow)
Bowles, Capt. H. F.(Middlesex) Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. Holland, Wm. H.(York, W.R.)
Brassey, Albert Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. Hart Howard, Joseph
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Elliot, Hn. A. Ralph Douglas Howell, William Tudor
Brown, Alexander H. Ellis, John Edward Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil
Bryce, Rt. Hn. James Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Hubbard, Hn. Evelyn
Burt, Thomas Fardell, Sir T. George Hudson, George Bickersteth
Butcher, John George Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edwd. Jebb, Richard Claverhouse
Buxton, Sydney Charles Ferguson, R. C. Munro(Leith) Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Fergusson, RtHnSirJ.(Manch'r Jessel, Capt. Herb. Merton
Carlile, William Walter Finch, George H. Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez Edw
Carmichael, Sir T. D. Gibson Finlay, Sir Robt. Bannatyne Johnston, William (Belfast)
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Firbank, Joseph Thomas Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex)
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Fisher, William Hayes Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) Fitzgerald, Sir Robt. Penrose Kay-Shuttleworth, RtHnSirU.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Flannery, Sir Fortescue Kimber, Henry
Chaloner, Capt. R. G. W. Fletcher, Sir Henry King, Sir Henry Seymour
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Flower, Ernest Laurie, Lieut.-General
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Folkestone, Viscount Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn)
Channing, Francis Allston Foster, Sir Walter(Derby Co.) Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) O'Neill, Hn. Robert Torrens Smith, Hn. W. F. D.(Strand)
Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay Spencer, Ernest
Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Palmer, Geo. Wm. (Reading) Stanley, Hn. Arthur(Ormskirk)
Leighton, Stanley Paulton, James Mellor Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Llewellyn, Evan H.(Somerset) Pease, Alfred E. (Cleveland) Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth)
Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Pease, Herb. Pike(Darlington) Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Pease, Joseph A. (Northumb.) Stephens, Henry Charles
Long, Col. Chas. W.(Evesham) Pender, Sir James Stewart, Sir Mark J.M'Taggart
Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(L'pool.) Penn, John Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller Percy, Earl Strauss, Arthur
Lorne, Marquess of Pierpoint, Robert Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Lowe, Francis William Pirie, Duncan V. Sturt, Hn. Humphry Napier
Lowther, Rt. Hn. Jas. (Kent) Platt-Higgins, Frederick Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Loyd, Archie Kirkman Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Ox. Univ.)
Lubbock, Rt. Hn. Sir John Pretyman, Ernest George Thorburn, Walter
Lucas-Shadwell, William priestley, Sir W. Overend(Edin) Tollemache, Henry James
Lyell, Sir Leonard Purvis, Robert Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Macartney, W. G. Ellison Quilter, Sir Cuthbert Tritton, Charles Ernest
Macdona, John Cumming Rankin, Sir James Usborne, Thomas
Maclean, James Mackenzie Rasch, Major Frederic Carne Valentia, Viscount
Maclure, Sir John William Redmond, Jno. E.(Waterford) Verney, Hn. Richard Greville
McCalmont, H.L.B.(Cambs.) Redmond, William (Clare) Vincent. Col. Sir C. E. Howard
McIver, Sir Lewis(Edin., W.) Renshaw, Charles Bine Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent)
Maple, Sir John Blundell Rentoul, James Alexander Warr, Augustus Frederick
Marks, Hairy H. Rickett, J. Compton Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras)
Martin, Richard Biddulph Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson Webster, Sir R.E.(I.of Wight)
Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E.
Mellor, Rt. Hn. J.W.(Yorks.) Robertson, Herb, (Hackney) Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Melville, Beresford Valentine Rothschild, Hn. Lionel Walter Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Round, James Williams, Jos. Powell (Birm.)
Middlemore, Jno. Throgmorton Russell, Gen. F.S.(Chelt'ham.) Willox, Sir John Archibald
Milbank, Sir Powlett Chas. Jno Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.)
Milward, Colonel Victor Samuel, Harry S.(Limehouse) Wodehouse, Rt Hn. E.R.(Bath)
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
More, Robt. Jasper(Shropshire) Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen) Seely, Charles Hilton Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H.
Morton, Arth. H.A.(Deptford) Sharpe, William Edward T. Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Murray, Rt HnA. Graham(Bute) Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Murray, Col. Wyndham(Bath) Shaw-Stewart, M.H. (Renfrew) Young, Commander(Berks,E.)
Newark, Viscount Sidebottom, T.H.(Stalybridge)
Newdigate, Francis Alexander Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES
Nicholson, William Graham Simeon, Sir Barrington Sir William Walrond and
Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford Skewes-Cox, Thomas Mr. Anstruther.
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)
Allison, Robert Andrew Jacoby, James Alfred Power, Patrick Joseph
Ambrose, Robert Joicey, Sir James Price, Robert John
Baker, Sir John Jones David Brynmor(Swansea Randell, David
Barlow, John Emmott Kearley, Hudson E. Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Billson, Alfred Kinloch, Sir Jno. Geo. Smyth Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Blake, Edward Kitson, Sir James Sinclair, Capt. Jno.(Forfarsh.)
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Leng, Sir John Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Leuty, Thomas Richmond Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Caldwell, James Lewis, John Herbert Souttar, Robinson
Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) Lough, Thomas Spicer, Albert
Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton Macaleese, Daniel Stanhope, Hn. Philip J.
Clough, Walter Owen McKenna, Reginald Stevenson, Francis S.
Crombie, John William Maddison, Fred. Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Daly, James Mappin, Sir Frederick Thorpe Tennant, Harold John
Dillon, John Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Donelan, Captain A. Montagu, Sir S.(Whitechapel) Ure, Alexander
Douglas, Chas. M. (Lanark) Morley, Rt. Hn. Jno.(Montrose) Wallace, Robert (Perth)
Duckworth, James Morton, Edw. J.C.(Dev'port.) Wedderburn, Sir William
Evans, Sir Francis H.(South'ton) Moulton, John Fletcher Weir, James Galloway
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Norton, Capt. Cecil William Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis Nussey, Thomas Willans Williams, Jno. Carvell (Notts.)
Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Wills, Sir William Henry
Gold, Charles O'Connor, Jas.(Wicklow,W.) Wilson, John (Govan)
Harcourt, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. Oldroyd, Mark
Harwood, George Pease, Sir Joseph W.(Durham) TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Horniman, Frederick John Perks, Robert William Sir Wilfrid Lawson and
Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Pickersgill, Edward Hare Mr. Warner.

The Resolution was then agreed to.

The names of Sir Fortescue Flannery, Sir Walter Foster, Mr. Hedderwick, Mr. Samuel Hoare, Mr. Lionel Holland, Mr. Lecky, Mr. Llewellyn, Mr. Lloyd-George, Mr. A. K. Loyd, Sir James Rankin, Mr. W. Redmond, and Mr. S. Woods were then added to the Committee.

Ordered, That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers, and records.

Ordered, That Five be the quorum.—(Sir William Walrond.)

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