§
Motion made, and Question proposed—
That Government Business have precedence to-morrow."—(Frirst Lord of the Treasury.)
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.)I explained to the House on a previous occasion how it was necessary, in order to meet the appeal that has been made to mo that the Second Reading of the London Municipal Bill should not be thrust too near the Easter holidays, that we should begin the discussion to-morrow. I think the House acceded to that suggestion, and, therefore, without any further remark, I move the Motion that stands in my name.
§ MR. BUCHANAN (Aberdeenshire, E.)I think that the right honourable Gentleman has been very sparing 1338 in his arguments in support of his Resolution, and I think that the reason why he has been very sparing in his arguments is because there are very few arguments that can be adduced in support of it. Now, I am opposed to the method adopted by the right honourable Gentleman in continually making Motions of this sort for using private Members' time. I oppose it tonight, not only because I have a Motion upon the Paper, but upon other general grounds. With regard to my Motion ever having a fair chance of coming on, I knew perfectly well when I put it down upon the Paper a few weeks ago that its chance of life was somewhat precarious. I know that the right honourable Gentleman is one of the severest enemies of private Members' Motions, and of their being brought forward at all, but I will admit this, that he serves out equal measures to all Motions, whether important or unimportant, whether large or small, those coming from this side of the House and those coming from that—no matter from which side of the House they come. I strongly oppose the Motion of the right honourable Gentleman, not because of my own Motion, but upon general 1339 grounds. Now, what is the reason, and is there any reason, for this course being taken? Why should to-morrow be taken? Is there any possible reason, in the urgency of public business at the present moment, why to-morrow night should be taken away from the private Members? The right honourable Gentleman has not had the excuse this evening which he has had so often in the past—that the private Members have not availed themselves of the opportunities given to them. We have only had three nights for the purposes of our discussions, and the right honourable Gentleman cannot in any way deny that important Motions have been brought forward, from his own side of the House and from that of his opponents, and there has not been any time wasted, and there has been no count out. He cannot allege that there has been even the slightest waste of time on the part of the private Members. The only time that has been wasted was wasted last Friday week, not by the private Members, but by the right honourable Gentleman himself-—his excuse being there was some mistake on the part of the printer!
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYDoes the honourable Member imply that I used the printer as a shield?
§ MR. BUCHANANI say that certainly the responsibility was on the right honourable Gentleman himself.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYIt is nothing of the kind.
§ MR. BUCHANANThe right honourable Gentleman is responsible for the business in this House, and if half a sitting is thrown away, it is the right honourable Gentleman himself who is responsible for it. I could never have imagined that he would endeavour to shirk the responsibility which must remain upon his shoulders. To-night he has no such question in his mind, and I wish to know what possible reason is there for urgency in 1340 this matter? If he put down his Motion for financial reasons and Supply I could have understood his doing so, but he has not done that; he has put down the Motion in perfectly general terms, and has told us to-night that it is in order to bring forward the London Municipal Bill. Now, is there really any reason why this London Government Bill should be taken to-morrow at the expense of the private Members' time? I say that no such reason can be given. Wo had it fixed, first of all, for next Monday, and then for next Thursday, and now it is fixed for Tuesday, and we are to have one or two days for it. Now, whatever time is necessary for this London Government Bill, I say that that time ought to be found out of Government time, and that the time of private Members ought not to be sacrificed at the hands and by the Motions of the Government. The right honourable Gentleman has shown us that the only important business to be done in this House, in his idea, is the passing of Government Bills and Measures. That is a very limited view to take of the duties of this House and the Members, and our constituents who send us here send us with the idea that we shall, at least, have some opportunity of bringing forward some discussions on very important matters in this House in which they and we take considerable interest. And because the right honourable Gentleman has, I consider, been acting improperly, and is ruthlessly trespassing on the rights of the private Members, I shall certainly give this Motion the greatest opposition in my power.
§ COLONEL SIR HOWARD VINCENT (Sheffield, Central)May I ask my right honourable Friend whether, if he takes to-morrow for Government business, he will, after Easter, give us some equivalent time? It seems rather hard upon us if he does not, as there are several interesting Motions put down upon the Paper for to-morrow for private-Members.
§ MR. LOUGH (Islington, W.)I desire to support my honourable Friend who spoke in opposition to this Motion, and who took exception to it from the standpoint that the exigencies of Parliamentary business did not require it. As a London Member, I should like to take a different point. The only explanation that the right honourable Gentleman gives us is that to-morrow is a very desirable day to take this London Government Bill. I think it is a most undesirable day to take it. I think it is being hurried through with undue haste. Two or three weeks ago the right honourable Gentleman said that he was most anxious to hear the voice of London upon this matter; but he gives no time for the voice of London to be heard upon it—no time whatever. The Bill is of very far-reaching importance, affecting as it does 42 municipal bodies in the metropolis, and it is only right that some time should be given to those bodies to consider a Bill of this character, which affects their welfare so much. Already 17 of those bodies have
§ protested against this Bill, and I have no doubt that it is because of the rapidity with which these protests are coming in that the right honourable Gentleman is pressing on the Bill in this manner. It is an extraordinary state of things; and the fact that 17 of these bodies have used these few days to protest against it shows that London ought to have some further time to consider the matter. The London County Council is considering this question, and as it only meets once a week it must take some time to do so. I doubt if it is not too late already. The right honourable Gentleman, I do think, might see his way to give us more time to consider the Bill; everybody would be glad of it, and if he cannot see his way to allowing us a little further time, I shall be obliged to oppose this Motion.
§
Question put—
That Government Business have precedence to-morrow."—(First Lord of the Treasury.)
§ The House divided:—Ayes 196; Noes 96.—(Division List No. 54.)
1343| AYES | ||
| Allhusen,August. Henry Eden | Charrington, Spencer | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Arnold, Alfred | Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. | Folkestone, Viscount |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Coddington, Sir William | Forster, Henry William |
| Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Garrit, William |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Gedge, Sydney |
| Bagot,Capt.JoseelineFitzRoy | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Gibbs,Hn.A.G.H.(C.ofLond.) |
| Bailey. James (Walworth) | Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready- | Giles, Charles Tyrrell |
| Balcarres, Lord | Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow) | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Balfour,Rt.Hn.A.J.(Maneh'r) | Cripps, Charles Alfred | Gorst, Rt. Hn.Sir John Eldon |
| Balfour,RtHn GeraldW(Leeds) | Cross, Herb.Shepherd(Bolton) | Goschen, George J. (Sussex) |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Cruddas, William Donaldson. | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) |
| Barry, Sir FrancisT. (Windsor) | Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Green, WaifordD.(Wednesbury |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Currie, Sir Donald | Greville, Hon. Ronald |
| Bathurst,Hn. Allen Benjamin | Curzon, Viscount | Gull, Sir Cameron |
| Beckett, Ernest William | Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Gunter, Colonel |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Halsey, Thomas Frederick |
| Bill, Charles | Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Hamilton, Rt.Hn.Lord George |
| Bonsor, Henry Cosmo Orme | Davenport, W. Bromley- | Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robt. Wm. |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Dickson-Poynder. Sir John P. | Hanson, Sir Reginald |
| Bowles, Capt.H.F. (Middlesex) | Dixon-Hartland,SirFrd. Dixon | Hardy, Laurence |
| Bowles, T.Gibson(King'sLynn) | Dorington, Sir John Edward | Hare, Thomas Leigh |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John | Doughty, George | Helder, Augustus |
| Butcher. John George | Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- | Hill,Rt.Hn.A.Staveley(Staffs) |
| Carlile, William Walter | Doxford, William Theodore | Hoare,Edw.Brodie(Hampstead |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Drage, Geoffrey | Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) |
| Cavendish, V. C.W.(Derbysh.) | Duncombe, Hn. Hubert V. | Holland, Hon. Lionel R. (Bow) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. Hart | Howard, Joseph |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas | Hozier, Hn. Jas. Henry Cecil |
| Chamberlain, Rt.Hn. J. (Birm.) | Fardell, Sir T.George | Hudson, George Bickersteth |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen) Worc'r) | Fergusson.Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r | Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice- |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse |
| Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Murray,RtHnA.Graham(Bute); | Spencer, Ernest |
| Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Murray, Col.Wyndham(Bath) | Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth) |
| King, Sir Henry Seymour | Myers, William Henry | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Lafone, Alfred | Nicol, Daniel Ninian | Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart |
| Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford | Stock, Henry James |
| Lecky, Rt. Hn. Wm. Edw. H. | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Pease, Herb.Pike(Darlington) | Talbot,RtHnJ.G.(Oxf'dUniv.) |
| Leighton, Stanley | Penn, John | Thorburn. Walter |
| Llewellyn,Evan H. (Somerset) | Pilkington, Richard | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Long, Col. Chas.W.(Evesham) | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Long,RtHnWalter(Liverpool) | Priestlcy,SirWOverend(Edin.) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Lorne, Marquess of | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Csborne, Thomas |
| Lowe, Francis William | Purvis, Robert | Valentia, Viscount |
| Lowles, John | Pym, C. Guy | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Ward, Hon. Robert A. (Crewe) |
| Lucas-Shadwell, William | Rentoul, James Alexander | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | Webster, It. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Macdona, John Gumming | Rothschild, Hn. Lionel Walter | Webster, Sir R, E. (I. of W.) |
| M 'Calmont, H. L. B. (Cambs.) | Round, James | Welby, Lieut, Col. A. C. E. |
| M ' lver, Sir Lewis (Edin., W.) | Royds, Clement Molyneux | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- |
| Malcolm, Ian | Russell, Gen. F.S.(Cheltenham) | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone | Whiteley, George (Scockport) |
| Martin, Richard Biddulph | Rutherford, John | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) ' | Williams, Jos. Powell (Birm.) |
| Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. | Savory, Sir Joseph | Wodehouse, Rt.Hn.E. R. (Bath) |
| Middlemore,JohnThrogmorton | Scoble, Sir Andrew- | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Milbank.SirPowlett Chas. John | Scott. Sir S. (Marylcbone, W.) | Wyudham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Seton-Karr, Henry | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Monckton, Edward Philip | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong |
| Monk, Charles James | Sidebottom, William (Derbysh.) | |
| More,Robt.Jasper(Shropshire) | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Morrell, George Herbert | Skewes-Cox, Thomas | Sir William Walrond and |
| Morton,Arthur H.A.(Deptford | Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch) | Mr. Anstruther. |
| Mount, William George | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) | Richardson, J. (Durham) |
| Allison, Robert Andrew | Gurdon Sir William Brampton | Roche, Hn. James (East Kerry) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire) | Hazell, Walter | Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford) |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Hedderwick, Thomas Chas. H. | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Bainbridge, Emerson | Hobhouse, Henry | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Baker, Sir John | Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. | Srattar, Robinson |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | Spicer, Albert |
| Blake, Edward | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | Stanhope, Hon. Philip J. |
| Bryce. Rt. Hon. James | Kay-Shuttleworch,RtHnSirU. | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Burt, Thomas | Kinloch, Sir John Geo. Smyth | Strachey, Edward |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Lambert, George | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Caldwell, James | Leese, Sir Jos. F. (Accrington) | Tanner, Charles Kearns |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow) | Leng, Sir John | Tennant, Harold John |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Lewis, John Herbert | Thomas, Alfd. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Carmichael, Sir T. D. Gibson- | Lloyd-Geoage, David | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Logan, John William | Ure, Alexander |
| Clark, Dr. G. B.(Caithness-sh.) | Lowther, Rt. Hon. Jas. (Kent) | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Clough, Walter Owen | Macaleese, Daniel | Wallace, Robert (Edinburgh) |
| Courtney, Rt. Hon. Leonard H. | M' Dermott, Patrick | Wallace, Robert (Perth) |
| Curran, Thomas (Sigo, S.) | M'Ewan, William | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | M'Kenna, Reginald | Wedderburn Sir William |
| Dillon, John | Maddison, Fred. | Weir, James Galloway |
| Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) | Mappin, Sir Frederick Thorpe | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Duckworth, James | Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel) | Williams, John Carvell (Notts) |
| Ellis, John Edward (Notts) | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Wills, Sir William Henry |
| Farquharson, Dr. Robert | Moulton, John Fletcher | Wilson, Frederick W. (Norfolk) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Wilson, Henry J. York, W. R.) |
| Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbro') |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | Woods, Samuel |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J. | Paulton, James Mellor | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Goddard. Daniel Fold | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | Mr. Buchanan and Mr. |
| Gourley, Sir Edwd. Temperley | Reid, Sir Robert Threshie | Lough. |
§ Ordered, That Government Business have precedence To-morrow.