§ SIR H. H. FOWLER (Wolverhampton)I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture in what manner the estimate of £87,000, which he stated would be the charge upon the Local Taxation Account arising under the Tithe Rent-charge (Rates) Bill, was arrived at.
§ * THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE (Mr. LONG,) Liverpool, West DerbyThe commutation value of the rent-charges payable to parochial incumbents was £2,412,000, and taking into account the reduction of this amount owing to the fall in the corn averages and making allowance for the deductions made in arriving at the net rateable value it appeared unlikely that the net rateable value of the property Included within the Bill would exceed £1,400,000. In consultation with the Local Government Board we thought it safe to assume that the rates in respect of which relief is given in the Bill would average about 2s. 6d. in the pound, which gave us £175,000 as the total of the rates paid, one moiety of which is the £87,500 of which I made mention when introducing the Bill. For the convenience of hon. Members I have put copies of this answer in the Vote Office.
§ MR. LAMBERTI beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether any, if so, what, reduction is now allowed on the gross value of tithe rent-charge for rateable purposes; and what rates are referred to in Clause 4 of the Tithe Rent-charge (Rates) Bill by the words "except 775 any rate which the owner of tithe rent-charge is liable, as compared with the occupier of buildings, to be assessed to or to pay in proportion of one-half or less than one-half."
§ * MR. LONGThe principal deductions usually allowed in arriving at the net rateable value of tithe rent-charge are the expenses of collection, including law expenses, a deduction on account of had debts, first fruits, tenths and other ecclesiastical dues, and all usual tenants' rates and taxes. The rates referred to in Clause 4 of the Bill are those in which the owner of tithe rent charge has already been placed by Parliament in a more favourable position than that in which it is proposed to place him under the Bill, of which the rates levied under the Public Health Act and the Lighting and Watching Acts are the most conspicuous examples.
§ MR. LAMBERTI beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture what is the amount of rates levied on tithe rent-charge attached to a benefice, and not attached to a benefice; and what is the reason for not proposing the same relief from rates for both the classes of tithe rent-charge.
§ * MR. LONGSo far as I am aware there is at present no difference in the amount of the rates levied on tithe rent-charge attached to a benefice and tithe rent-charge not so attached. Our view is, however, that the conditions of tenure and statutory obligations present in the two cases render it equitable to make a distinction between them, and hence the limitation set out in the Bill.
§ MR. SAMUEL EVANS (Glamorganshire, Mid)I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer when he intends to propose an Amendment to Standing Order 62, in pursuance of the pledge he gave, or in fulfilment of the hope he held out, to the House on the 23rd June, 1896, in order to ensure that a Resolution of the House in Committee shall precede a Bill which intercepts public funds; and whether it is intended to proceed with the Tithe Rent-charge (Rates) Bill without such a Resolution having been first passed in Committee.
§ SIR M. HICKS-BEACHI gave no pledge on this matter; but, in pursuance of what I said at the time named, I 776 placed on the Paper notice of an Amendment of the Standing Order. I found that it would be opposed, and was unable to find time to proceed with it. But if such an Amendment had been passed it would not have affected the Tithe Rent-charge (Rates) Bill. That Bill does not intercept any revenue; the revenue with which it deals is already intercepted by law, and paid into the local taxation account.
§ SIR M. HICKS-BEACHNo, Sir.
§ MR. SAMUEL EVANSDoes the right hon. Gentleman propose to move, the Amendment?
§ SIR M. HICKS - BEACHI do not think it worth while troubling the House with it.
§ MR. SAMUEL EVANSI beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture if he can state to the House what is the total number of the owners of tithe rent-charge attached to benefices of the Church of England in England and Wales; what is the total gross annual value of such tithe rent-charge; and what is the total animal income of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of England and Wales.
§ * MR. LONGThe total number of owners of tithe rent-charge attached to a benefice in England and Wales is between ten and eleven thousand. The present total gross annual value of such tithe rent; charge is approximately £1,688,000. With regard to the annual income of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, I would ask the hon. Member to allow me to refer him to the Report recently presented by those Commissioners to Parliament, which contains very full details on the subject.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W.)I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he will lay upon the Table a Return of the cases in which, the tithes having been compounded on the basis of the tithe-payers paying the rates, such additions were made to the composition under the Tithe Commutation Act, 1836, as would be equivalent to the rates paid; and also showing the relative amount of the present rate, as compared with the amount of the rate at the period of such addition.
§ * MR. LONGOf course, I have given this question very careful consideration. I very much regret that I cannot comply with the request of the right hon. Gentleman. Although I very much sympathise with the desire for such a Return, I regret that the information required is not available. It would be almost impossible to get the information sought in the last paragraph.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURTIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that these very facts have been in consecutive years presented to Parliament and are in print, and that all that is necessary is to collect them? Is he aware that these very facts have been presented to Parliament for a period extending over some ten years? All I am asking for is that they shall be embodied in one Return.
§ * MR. LONGAs I read the question of the right hon. Gentleman, I thought he desired a Return showing how main cases were compounded under the Act of 1836, and how many were not so dealt with. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the variations in these cases is very considerable, and the labour involved in the preparation of such a Return very great. But it I have misapprehended the question, I shall gladly consider the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleman.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURTI would ask the right hon. Gentleman to look at these Returns. They give every single case where there has been a composition. I only want information already in print put in a consolidated form.