HC Deb 12 June 1899 vol 72 cc908-10

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Motion made and Question proposed— That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parlia- ment, of any remuneration, allowances, and expenses that may become payable under any Act of the present session to provide for improving and extending the procedure for obtaining Parliamentary powers by way of Provisional Orders in matters relating to Scotland."—(Sir William Walrond.)

MR. THOMAS SHAW (Hawick Burghs)

I beg to move to omit the word "remuneration" from the Resolution. I am quite aware that this is only an enabling resolution, but I am anxious at the earliest moment to make it known what is the attitude I desire to take upon this Bill. I am not hostile to the principle of the Bill, but my objection is to setting up, by means of this measure, an extra-Parliamentary Commission of salaried officials. Without desiring to prejudge discussion of the Bill, I think its legitimate purpose would be met by confining the resolution to allowances and expenses.

Amendment proposed— To leave out the word 'remuneration.'"—(Mr. Thos. Shaw.) Question proposed— That the word 'remuneration' stand part of the Resolution.

THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. A. G. MURRAY, Buteshire)

I hope this will not be pressed. This Resolution merely enables the Committee to do certain things, and even if it is passed in its present form it will leave the situation precisely the same so far as the proposals of the Bill are concerned. When the Bill is in Committee it will be in order for my hon. and learned friend to move to strike out the clause which provides for the remuneration of certain of the Commissioners. It would be very inconvenient at this stage to discuss competing schemes.

DR. CLARK (Caithness)

In all the Bills hitherto brought forward the proposal has been to have a paid Commission, but under this Bill the Commission will be partly paid and partly unpaid. If Members of either House sit on the Commission they are not to be paid, but all outsiders are to receive remuneration. I think this is a bad principle; they either all ought to be paid, or none should receive payment for the work done. In the past the Committee have done the work without payment, and, seeing how satisfactorily that principle has worked, I protest against setting up a paid Commission. I believe, however, that the Lord Advocate has on the Paper an Amendment which meets us half way, and under the circumstances I think it would be better to postpone the fight until we come to that Amendment.

MR. J. P. SMITH (Lanark, Partick)

I understand that the Resolution provides not only for the remuneration of the Commissioners, but also for that of the clerks and other officials who will have to be paid whatever scheme may eventually be adopted; I hope, therefore, the Amendment will not be pressed.

MR. THOMAS SHAW

I beg to ask leave to withdraw it.

*MR. CHANNING (Northampton, E.)

As an English Member, I wish to enter an emphatic protest against the proposal of this Bill to cheapen Private Bill procedure for Scotland by throwing part of the costs on the general taxpayer. Any scheme that may be adopted for that purpose should be applicable to the whole of the United Kingdom, and not merely to Scotland.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Original Question put and agreed to.

Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, of any remuneration, allowances, and expenses that may become payable under any Act of the present session to provide for improving and extending the procedure for obtaining Parliamentary powers by way of Provisional Orders in matters relating to Scotland.

Resolution to be reported To-morrow.