HC Deb 31 July 1899 vol 75 cc952-6

4. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £23,175 (including a Supplementary sum of £9,175), be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Salaries and other expenses of Temporary Commissions, Committees, and Special Inquiries, including a Grant in Aid of the Congested Districts Board (Ireland)."


Every year we have to take note of the fact that, in spite of the recent words of the Prime Minister with reference to Commissions, there is a continual increase in their number. The Liquor Commission is an example to the whole country of the futility of appointing Commissions of this kind on any subject. The only really useful questions I would wish to put is, What is likely to be the fate of the Commission which is inquiring into local rating in this country, which is presided over by Lord Balfour of Burleigh? I do not know whether we can get the information on this Vote. I have a great objection to these ponderous Commissions, the Reports of which are always inconclusive.


I think we ought to have some information regarding the progress made by the Local Taxation Commission. The question submitted to it is one of enormous importance, in which the House and the country are deeply interested. During the Debates on the Tithes Bill, constant reference was made to the work of this Commission. It is extraordinary how easily the Government, when they want to take a particular course, can get an interim Report in favour of that course. I think the Government ought to make some statement regarding the progress of the Commission.


It would be quite out of order to discuss now the progress made by a Royal Commission.


May I ask when the Commission is likely to report? We are asked to vote the sum of £1,465 for salaries. Last year we voted £1,705 for that purpose, and I want to know whether we are getting value for our money, and how long these salaries are to continue. We consider it is high time that there should be a conclusion to the work of this particular Commission, because the interests involved are very large, and the country is eagerly awaiting some definite scheme for the solution of the taxation problem which presses so heavily on certain portions of the community. Unless the Government can give us some indication of when we may expect the Report of the

Commission, I shall have to move the reduction of the Vote by £100.


I believe that the Commission is making rapid progress. The hon. Gentleman himself has referred to the magnitude of its work, and I think the Committee ought not to be unduly impatient as to the time occupied in its, discharge.


The Commission has dealt with its work in a piecemeal fashion, which is not satisfactory to hon. Members on this side of the House, and I therefore move the reduction of the Vote by the sum of £100.

Motion made, and Question put— That a sum, not exceeding £23,075, be granted for the said Service "£(Mr. Lewis.)

The Committee divided:£Ayes, 49; Noes, 114. (Division List, No. 321.)

Asher, Alexander Hazell, Walter Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H. Holland, W. H. (York, W. R.) Robson, William Snowdon
Broadhurst, Henry Horniman, Frederick John Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh.
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Jameson, Major J. Eustace Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Joicey, Sir James Steadman, William Charles
Caldwell, James Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Labouchere, Henry Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Causton, Richard Knight Lambert, George
Cawley, Frederick Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'l'd) Ure, Alexander
Channing, Francis Allston Macaleese, Daniel Wallace, Robert
Dalziel, James Henry M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Warner, Thomas Courtenay T,
Dewar, Arthur M'Crae, George Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Maddison, Ered. Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.)
Doogan, P. C. Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Moss, Samuel
Gladstone, Rt. Hon Herbert J. Oldroyd, Mark TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Herbert Lewis and Mr. Hedderwick.
Griffith, Ellis J. Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- Rickett, J. Compton
Anson, Sir William Reynell Barry, Rt. Hn. A. H. S. Hunts) Blundell, Colonel Henry
Arnold, Alfred Barton, Dunbar Plunket Boscawen, Arthur Griffith
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin. Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol) Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds Bemrose, Sir Henry Howe Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.)
Banbury, Frederick George Bethell, Commander Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc.
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Bigwood, James Chaplin, Right Hon. Henry
Charrington, Spencer Lecky, Rt. Hon. Wm. E. H. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Round, James
Coghill, Douglas Harry Lockwood, Lt. Col. A. R. Royds, Clement Molyneux
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham Seely, Charles Hilton
Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool)
Compton, Lord Alwyne Lorne, Marquess of Sharpe, William Edward T
Cox, Irwin Edw. Bainbridge Lowles, John Side bottom, Wm (Derbysh.)
Cranborne, Viscount Loyd, Archie Kirkman Simeon, Sir Barrington
Curzon, Viscount Lucas-Shadwell, William Stanley, Edward J. (Somereset)
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Macartney, W. G. Ellison Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Macdona, John Cumming Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M
Doxford, William Theodore Maclure, Sir John William Strauss, Arthur
Duncom be, Hon. Hubert V. M'Killop, James Strutt, Hon. Chas. Healey
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edwd. Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Uni
Fisher, William Hayes Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Thornton, Percy M.
Fletcher, Sir Henry More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire Tomlinson, W. Edw. Murray
Flower, Ernest Morrell, George Herbert Valentia, Viscount
Gedge, Sydney Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)
Giles, Charles Tyrrell Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Goldsworthy, Major-General Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Williams, J. Powell- (Birm)
Gordon, Hon. John Edward Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Williams, John (Falkirk)
Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon Newdigate, Francis Alex. Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)
Goschen, Rt. Hn G J. (St George's Nicholson, William Graham Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Goschen, George J. (Sussex) Nicol, Donald Ninian Wylie, Alexander
Greene, Hen. D. (Shrewsbury) Percy, Earl Wyndham, George
Gull, Sir Cameron Pollock, Harry Frederick Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Hanbury.Rt. Hon. Rbt. Wm. Purvis, Robert Young, Commander (Berks, E.)
Hornby, Sir William Henry Rentoul, James Alexander
Johnston, William (Belfast) Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn Ritchie. Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

Original Question put, and agreed to.


I now beg to move to report Progress.

MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)

I should like to ask what is the object of this motion at the present time. Several of my hon friends are interested in some of the votes yet to be taken, and it would be more convenient to go on with them.


Do I understand from the hon. Member that some of his friends desire to discuss the remaining Votes to-night? I should like the Votes to be taken, but I cannot afford the time to-night, as there are Bills yet to be discussed.


The right hon. Gentleman will see that it is very inconvenient when certain proposals are on the Paper that business should be upset at a moment's notice.


May I point out to my hon. friend that this is not a Supply night. The object of taking Supply was merely to pass certain Supplementary Votes which had to be passed to-night, otherwise the sitting would be devoted to Bills.

Committee report Progress.

Resolutions to be reported To-morrow.

Committee to sit again To-morrow.

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