HC Deb 27 July 1899 vol 75 cc514-6
SIR CHARLES DILKE

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he intends to ask the House to close the Committee of Supply at the earliest possible date, or whether, having regard to the large number of Votes undiscussed, and to the fact that on some of the allotted days the House adjourned at an early hour, he will, without exceeding the number of allotted days, give additional time in the present session to Supply

MR. J. E. ELLIS (Nottinghamshire, Rushcliffe)

I beg, at the same time, to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, inasmuch as no less than seventy-three Votes in Supply remain to be taken, and only one more day of effective discussion in respect of these Votes is left, he will consider, before again moving the Sessional Order with respect to Supply, whether such modification in its terms or working is possible as will secure to the House the efficient discharge of its function of criticism and control of the policy and expenditure of the Administrative Departments.

THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,) Manchester, E.

Perhaps I may be allowed to answer these two questions at the same time. It is perfectly true, as the right hon. Baronet states, that on two of the allotted days the House adjourned before twelve o'clock, but on two other of the allotted days it sat beyond twelve o'clock. On no day, however, have we adjourned early except under conditions which convinced us we should probably get more money by taking that course. Every gentleman acquainted with procedure in this House knows that sometimes you get a great deal in a short time by promising not to sit a long time; therefore I need not dwell upon that fact. I think that if we did adjourn before midnight on those two ocasions the result was not to diminish the number of Votes taken but to increase it. With regard to the question of the hon. Member for the Rushcliffe Division, it is perfectly true that there are more outstanding Votes at the present time than I should desire, and I hope a great many will be disposed of before the hour for the closure arrives; but I would remind hon. Gentleman that, as far as I know, except the Colonial Vote, which is coming on tomorrow, every great Department of State has passed in review before the House—the Board of Agriculture must also be excepted—and that of the seventy-three Votes left a good many of them, and those the most important, represent Votes not indeed carried by the House, but Votes which have been discussed, and in some instances very fully discussed, by the House. Of course I am anxious to diminish the number of those Votes, but when I try to make an arrangement to carry out that object I am not very earnestly seconded by Gentlemen in other quarters of the House. For instance, I proposed that some uncontroversial Votes should be taken to-morrow before the Colonial Vote. That proposal met with a good deal of opposition from individual Members opposite. I have since received an intimation from the Leader of the Opposition, which I am bound to consider, that he thought that course would be inconvenient. I have accordingly abandoned that course and consented that the Colonial Vote shall be the first. The result may be that we shall not get the other Votes, or else have to sit up very late to get them. I hope the House will second me in getting those uncontroversial Votes, and in thus diminishing the number of Votes outstanding before we come to the final day. I am asked whether we have any suggestion to make with regard to a reform of the rule. I think the rule as now set out is one which has already met with a general meed of approval, and I do not think the House will consent to abandon it; but I will consult the Chancellor of the Exchequer arid the Secretary of the Treasury, and I think it might be possible to carry out the suggestion of a Committee which sat on this subject in. 1888 and to alter the forms of the Estimates so as to diminish the number of Votes to be taken. I believe that would be a convenient course, and if it met with the general assent of the House, or with the assent of a large number of Members, I think we should find it easier to get through the Estimates more smoothly next session. Other suggestions have been made, and I have adumbrated some of them, but I doubt whether they have received general approval. The House will not readily, I think, consent to alter the rule which says that Supply must be concluded within a fixed time, and that, roughly, it must be taken once a week. I appeal to the hon. Gentlemen in all parts of the House who have this rule and all that depends upon it at heart to assist in obtaining as many Votes as possible before the last day on which Supply can be discussed.

* MR. BUCHANAN

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the suggestion of the Committee in 1888 to diminish the number of Votes in Supply did not meet with entire approval, and it was resolved that it could not be carried out until sanctioned by the Committee of Public Accounts?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I am not prepared to say that was not so, but I would remind the hon. Member that that was before the new rules of Supply came into force.

* SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH (Lancashire, Clitheroe)

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the whole subject of the number of Votes was referred to the Public Accounts Committee, who adopted a modified plan which did considerably reduce the number of Votes, and its decision was unanimously accepted by the House of Commons?