HC Deb 03 August 1899 vol 75 cc1264-8

As amended, further considered.

* SIR MANCHERJEE BHOWNAGGREE (Bethnal Green, N. E.)

In proposing the Amendment which stands in my name, I wish to explain that the object I have in view is to extend the provision which the Home Secretary is inserting in this Order to all the previous Orders confirmed by Parliament. I fully admit that the Home Secretary has given his most sympathetic consideration to the mischief which has been brought to his notice on account of the evasion by the London School Board of its statutory obligations with regard to the re-housing of the occupants of working class dwellings displaced by the acquisition of School Board sites. In my opinion the Home Secretary's provision does not go far enough. There were many such evasions before the year 1895—the limit chosen by the right hon. Gentleman—and it would be an act of gross injustice not to go back before that date. The Home Secretary and the School Board have admitted that the evasions have taken place, and I do not see why, in trying to remedy a mischief which has been deliberately and designedly committed, we should stop short of the full measure of justice which ought to be applied. The question of the re-housing of the working class population is one felt severely in the East End of London among the poorer population, for whose special benefit this provision was made by Parliament; yet the School Board, which is supposed in one department of life to serve the best interests of these classes, has deliberately and of set purpose, and not in ignorance, evaded its plain duty. I trust the Home Secretary will look on my Amendment as the logical outcome of the provision he has inserted in this Order, and that by accepting it he will apply a remedy to what is felt to be a crying evil in the East End of London.

Amendment proposed— In page 4, in Amendment inserted in Committee, in line 2, after the word 'Orders,' to insert the word 'previously.' "—(Sir Mancherjee Bhownaggree.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'previously' be there inserted."

THE VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE COMMITTEE OF COUNCIL ON EDUCATION (Sir JOHN GORST,) Cambridge University

There is no doubt that the evil to which the hon. Member refers does exist, and the intention of Parliament has been evaded. The duty of providing fresh dwellings when more than twenty houses have been acquired in any one year for the erection of a School Board has been evaded by taking less than twenty in a year. In order to meet that evasion, the Home Secretary has proposed an Amendment extending the obligation to replace working-class dwellings to a period of five years; so that if more than twenty houses are taken in five years the replacement is obligatory. The hon. Member wishes to carry it still further, and to make it practically perpetual; but the opinion of the Secretary of State is, that it is not necessary to go beyond the period of five years, for persons displaced earlier than that would probably be lost in the crowd by that time. In fact, it would be carrying the remedy to an unreasonable extent. I hope my hon. friend will be satisfied with the Amendment introduced into this Order—an Amendment which I understand will be introduced henceforth into every Bill of this nature.

MR. FLOWER (Bradford, W.)

The hon. Member who moved this Amendment seemed to think there will be no difficulty experienced by the School Board in giving effect to it. Upon that I join issue with him. He desires its operation should extend back for twenty-five years, and that would involve the London School Board instituting a search for many thousands of people amongst a population of an admittedly migratory character. Moreover, it would involve an expenditure of many thousands of pounds, and bearing in mind how heavy the London School Board rate already is, and remembering also, as a member of the board, that the projects and plans we have for the future do not afford much prospect of any early reduction, I would suggest to the hon. Member that, in trying to do an act of kindness and justice, he may at the same time be inflicting a severe punishment in another direction, by making an increased rate necessary. I think the Amendment of the Home Secretary goes quite far enough. I, for one, view with alarm any prospect of the School Board setting itself to work as a housing authority. The London County Council have done something in that direction, but their work has been marred by the high rents which they have been obliged to charge for the buildings they have erected. The School Board would have to face a like difficulty, and there would be a temptation to them to cramp the play-grounds, so as to reduce their obligations in the matter of re-housing. This evasion of the law has not been confined to the present School Board; it is a, legacy from many previous boards, and I trust the hon. Member will be satisfied with the punishment meted out to us by the Home Secretary.

MR. PICKERSGILL (Bethnal Green, S.W.)

If the Home Secretary had seen his way to make this provision absolutely retrospective, I, for one, would have been very glad, as the more accommodation we can get for the dispossessed poor the better. But I think the right hon. Gentleman has gone as far as we could expect, and Ministers with large majorities at their backs will be disposed to refuse all concessions if they find that when they offer reasonable ones they are met in a hostile spirit.

LORD HUGH CECIL (Greenwich)

I agree with the last speaker that my hon. friend would be well advised not to press this Amendment, in view of the sympathetic treatment the Government have given to the matter. At the same, time, I hold that he has done well in calling public attention to the subject. It is almost incredible that a public body in the position of the London School Board should for a number of years continue to evade Acts of Parliament for the benefit of the working classes. We have to face the fact that this public body has broken the law, and is now putting forward the astonishing defence that it would cost them a great deal of money to undo the wrong. So much the worse for them and for the ratepayers, who have been so foolish as to entrust their educational interests to a body of that kind. The board has been fanatically set upon the erection of school after school, wholly regardless of the interests of the working classes and of voluntary schools; and, now they are asked to pay the bill, they complain that the demand is unreasonable. I think my hon. friend has done well to bring the matter before the House, and I hope the people of London, when the next School Board election comes round, will take effectual measures to prevent a recurrence of such conduct.

* SIR MANCHEEJEE BHOWNAGGREE

After what has been said on behalf of the Government, and being satisfied with the opportunity I have had of calling attention to the great mischief which has occurred in the past, so as to prevent its recurrence in the future, I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Bill to be read the third time To-morrow.