HC Deb 01 August 1899 vol 75 cc1027-9

[By Order]; as Amended, considered.

Amendments made.

SIR ALBERT ROLLIT (Islington, S.)

I have, on behalf of my hon. friend the Member for East Hull, to move the Amendment which stands in his name. This Bill is one which, in the interests of the public, provides for limiting the use of level crossings in a very populous part of Hull. One portion of the Bill leaves to the stipendiary magistrate the decision of any question which may arise upon the use of the level crossings. Then there is a second provision, which seems to me rather inconsistent, and in which the same question as to the use of the level crossings is referred to the Railway and Canal Commission, which latter body is to have power to make rules and regulations. A penalty clause is suggested by the Corporation, and by it, undoubtedly, the stipendiary magistrate is to be the authority for settling these questions. The Corporation of Hull fool that, in the interests of the public safety, the question of these level crossings should be brought before, and decided by, a tribunal which is very accessible, which is not costly, and which will give a speedy remedy, and they contend that that is not the case with the Railway and Canal Commission. The object of this Amendment is to maintain the local authority, which in this case is the stipendiary magistrate, for the purposes of determining these local, but nevertheless important, questions. I beg to move.

Amendment proposed— In page 21, line 37, to leave out from the word 'Hull,' to the word 'provided,' in page 22, line 7."—(Sir Albert Rollit.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."

SIR J. KENNAWAY (Devon, Honiton)

May I briefly explain that the Committee which sat upon this Bill preferred to give the town a very ready and accessible tribunal, and they therefore suggested that power should be given to the stipendiary magistrate to dispense with the rules in cases of emergency, and also a penal power, in case these rules were not carried out. They had no desire to impose on the stipendiary magistrate business with which he was not cognisant, such as the making of fresh rules, and therefore they left the Railway Commissioners as the ultimate tribunal to be appealed to. I would appeal to the hon. Member to withdraw the Amendment, and instead of it agree to an alteration, whereby the Railway Commissioners will be still left with power to make regulations, but will not come in as another tribunal alongside of the stipendiary magistrate with powers, for deciding cases.

SIR J. JOICEY (Durham, Chester-le-Street)

The subject was most carefully considered by the Committee, the whole matter was thoroughly thrashed out on each side, and the clause, as it appears in the Bill, is the result of the representations of the learned counsel engaged by both parties. I think that under those circumstances it would be extremely unwise for the House to begin to make alterations and to override the decision of the Committee.

MR. MADDISON (Sheffield, Brightside)

I hope that the clause will not be allowed to stand as it is. The question of proper safeguards for public safety is of the utmost importance whenever level crossings are permitted in crowded towns. It is essential that there should be a simple and inexpensive remedy for any failure to properly carryout the regulations, and I hold it would not be fair to the Corporation of Hull to compel them to take any ques- tion that might arise before the Railway Commission. Such a course would entail great expense. The Commission is not held in high favour by those persons whose duty most frequently brings them into contact with it.

* THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (Mr. J. W. LOWTHER,) Cumberland, Penrith

I am bound to admit that there is force in the objection raised, and that it would be undesirable to leave it to the Railway Commission to determine whether a breach of the regulations has been committed after the stipendiary has given his decision. I would therefore suggest that if the alteration proposed is not adopted, the Debate should be adjourned.

SIR ALBERT ROLLIT

I agree that an adjournment would be the best course to adopt under the circumstances.

Debate adjourned till To-morrow.