- 1. "That a sum, not exceeding £4,988,000, be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of wages, etc., to officers, seamen and boys, coast guard, and Royal Marines, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1899."
- 2. "That a sum, not exceeding £247,700, be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Admiralty Office, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1899."
- 3. "That a sum, not exceeding £650,100, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the expense of works, buildings, and repairs, at home and abroad, including the cost of superintendence, purchase of sites, grants in aid, and other charges connected therewith, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1899."
§ Resolutions read a second time.
§
Third Resolution—
That a sum, not exceeding £650,100, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the expense of works, buildings, and repairs, at home and abroad, including the cost of superintendence, purchase of sites, grants in aid, and other charges connected therewith, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1899.
§ CAPTAIN D. V. PIRIE (Aberdeen, N.)This Vote was discussed in Committee last Friday at a very late hour, and was scarcely sufficiently discussed. There is one item to which I wish to draw the attention of the House, and that is the item under which money is spent for dockyards. I wish to ask for further information than was given to us on Friday as to the amount of money spent in the northern part of this island. Year by year this matter has been brought forward by Members on both sides of the House from Scotch constituencies, and year after year there is the same want of attention to their most legitimate demands. I want to understand how it is that there is less money spent on the defences of the northern portion of the kingdom.
§ THE CIVIL LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. J. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN,) Worcestershire, E.May I ask your ruling, Sir, as to whether a discussion on the defences of the northern part of the island properly arises upon this Vote?
§ MR. SPEAKERThe general subject was discussed upon this Vote.
§ CAPTAIN PIRIEMay I point out that last year this very question of dockyards was discussed upon this Vote?
§ MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member, as I understood, was not confining himself to dockyards.
§ CAPTAIN PIRIEI wanted to refer, Sir, to the very great danger which the country runs by the neglect to provide proper dock accommodation in the north of Scotland. The naval manœuvres have proved constantly that there is great necessity for the provision of dockyards both on the west and the east coast of Scotland. Another danger that might be felt acutely in time of war is the absence of skilled shipwrights available for the repair of any of Her Majesty's vessels that might unfortunately come to grief along that coast. The defence of the Clyde has been constantly brought before this House, principally by Members on the opposite side of the House. Two years ago a deputation waited on the First Lord of the Admiralty urging the establishment of a dockyard either at Greenock or at some place on the Clyde, and asking the Admiralty to grant some small subsidy. Still, nothing has been done. I do not put this before the House as a purely Scotch matter. I take a more broad and Imperial view of the question. I consider the defence of Scotland to be as important, from an Imperial point of view, to the safety of the United Kingdom as the defence of the English coasts. The Convention of Royal Burghs in Scotland has frequently called attention to this matter, and it is one undoubtedly deserving the immediate attention of the Admiralty. I beg to move a reduction of the Vote by £100.
§
Amendment proposed—
To leave out '£650,100,' and insert '£650,000'"—(Captain Pirie)—
instead thereof.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINThis question was raised the other night by an hon. Friend of mine behind me, and I gave him then the only answer that I can give this evening. I do not wish to say what it may be necessary for this country to do in the future, or where it may be necessary for us to provide docks, but at the present time the Admiralty has 528 carefully considered the immediate and pressing needs of the Fleet, and they do not consider that a dockyard in Scotland is amongst those most pressing needs. There is a great deal of other pressing work to be done, and after a careful survey of the needs of the Fleet, and the strategic necessities on the northern coasts of Scotland, we have decided that there are other and more urgent matters which must have precedence. For these reasons I cannot hold out any hope that the Government will at an early date be willing to find money for a dock on the Clyde.
§ DR. G. B. CLARK (Caithness)I regret to find that this Government, like its predecessor, although there are a great many Scotchmen included in it, pay no heed to the demands of Scotland. Why, Sir, we have the iron, we have the skilled labour, we have the best facilities for building ships and repairing ships, and yet we are still without a naval dock in Scotland. You have all your eggs in one basket—all your docks are in the south of England, far away from coal or iron. Why is that? Simply because in the olden days there was oak there, and when your ships were built of oak they were naturally the proper places at which to have your shipbuilding yards; but now you are building your ships of iron those are the worst places you could possibly have. At present we have one naval dockyard in Ireland, which, it is true, is not worth a very great deal, and we have one in Wales, and several in England, but there is none in Scotland. I had the pleasure of introducing this question a dozen years ago, and I received very strong support from Scotch Members on both sides of the House. I am glad to hear that a Unionist Scotch Member on Friday night brought this matter forward. It is one that urgently demands attention, and it would have received attention years ago had it not been that Scotch Members are so few that they can be treated with contempt.
§
Question put—
That '£650,100' stand part of the said Resolution.
§ The House divided:—Ayes 137; Noes 43.
475| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) | Begg, Ferdinand Faithful | Clarke, Sir Ed. (Plymouth) |
| Aird, John | Beresford, Lord Charles | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Bigwood, James | Coghill, Douglas Harry |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Blake, Edward | Cohen, Benjamin Louis |
| Baden-Powell, Sir Geo. Smyth | Bond, Edward | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Colomb, Sir Jno. Chas. Ready |
| Baillie, Jas. E. B. (Inverness) | Bullard, Sir Harry | Commins, Andrew |
| Baird, Jno. Geo. Alexander | Butcher, John George | Condon, Thomas Joseph |
| Balcarres, Lord | Carew, James Laurence | Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r.) | Carson, Rt. Hon. Edward | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. Grld W. (Leeds) | Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton | Courtney, Rt. Hn. Leonard H. |
| Bartley, George C. T. | Chambelain, J. Austen (Woc'r.) | Cranborne, Viscount |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Charrington, Spencer | Crilly, Daniel |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benj. | Clancy, John Joseph | Cripps, Charles Alfred |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristl.) | Clare, Octavius Leigh | Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) |
| Cross, Herbt. Shepherd (Bolton) | Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse | O'Kelly, James |
| Curran, Thos. (Sligo, S.) | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Parnell, John Howard |
| Curzon, Viscount (Bucks.) | Johnstone, John H. (Sussex) | Plunkett, Rt. Hn. Horace Curz'n |
| Daly, James | Jordan, Jeremiah | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Denny, Colonel | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. | Purvis, Robert |
| Dillon, John | Kenyon, James | Redmond, Jno. E. (Waterford) |
| Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Kimber, Henry | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Doogan, P. C. | Knox, Edmund Francis Vesey | Rentoul, James Alexander |
| Dorington, Sir Jno. Edward | Lafone, Alfred | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney.) |
| Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Drucker, A. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Leese, Sir Josh. F. (Accrington) | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) |
| Fardell, Sir T. George | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Saunderson, Colonel Ed. Jas. |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Leighton, Stanley | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc.) | Lowe, Francis William | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) |
| Field, William (Dublin) | Lowles, John | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire)> |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Lyell, Sir Leonard | Skewes-Cox, Thomas |
| Forster, Henry William | Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred | Smith, Samuel (Flint) |
| Forwood, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur B. | Macaleese, Daniel | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Spencer, Ernest |
| Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) | Macdona, John Cumming | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Gilliat, John Saunders | MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Queen's C.) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Goldsworthy, Major-General | M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon | M'Dermott, Patrick | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | M'Hugh, E. (Armagh, S.) | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) |
| Gretton, John | M'Iver, Sir Lewis | Tanner, Charles Kearns |
| Hammond, John (Carlow) | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Tully, Jasper |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robt. Wm. | Molloy, Bernard Charles | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Hanson, Sir Reginald | Monckton, Edward Philip | Warkworth, Lord |
| Harwood, George | More, Robert Jasper | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Healy, Maurice (Cork) | Morley, Rt. Hn. Jno. (Montrose) | Webster, Sir R. E. (I. of W.) |
| Healy, Timothy N. (N. Louth) | Morrell, George Herbert | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Helder, Augustus | Murray Rt. Hn. A. Grahm (Bute) | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- |
| Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Chas. H. | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Hill, Rt. Hn. Lord Arth. (Down) | Nicholson, William Graham | Wyndham, George |
| Hogan, James Francis | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Holden, Sir Angus | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | |
| Houston, R. P. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Howard, Joseph | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | Sir William Walrond and |
| Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) | Mr. Anstruther. |
| NOES. | ||
| Brigg, John | Lloyd-George, David | Thomas, Alf. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | M'Kenna, Reginald | Wallace, Robert (Edinburgh) |
| Caldwell, James | Oldroyd, Mark | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Pease, Joseph A. (Northumb.) | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middl'sbrough) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan) | Rickett, J. Compton | |
| Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles | Robson, William Snowdon | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Duckworth, James | Stevenson, Francis S. | Mr. Lambert and Mr. |
| Dunn, Sir William | Strachey, Edward | Logan. |
First two Resolutions agreed to.
| AYES. | ||
| Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis | Forster, Henry William | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptf'rd) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Forwood, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur B. | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Grhm (Bute) |
| Baden-Powell, Sir Geo. Smyth | Galloway, William Johnson | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) |
| Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy | Godson, Augustus Frederick | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Baird, Jno. Geo. Alexander | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Platt-Higgins, Frederick |
| Balcarres, Lord | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | Plunkett, Rt. Hn. Horace Curz'n |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r.) | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Pryce-Jones, Edward |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerld W. (Leeds) | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Purvis, Robert |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Gretton, John | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Greville, Captain | Rentoul, James Alexander |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benj. | Gull, Sir Cameron | Richardson, Sir Thos. (Hartlpl.) |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristl.) | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robt. W. | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. |
| Beresford, Lord Charles | Hanson, Sir Reginald | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Round, James |
| Bond, Edward | Heath, James | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Helder, Augustus | Russell, Gen. F. S. (Cheltenham) |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Brookfield, A. Montagu | Hill, Rt. Hn. Lord Arth. (Down) | Rutherford, John |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Howell, William Tudor | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Butcher, John George | Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Kemp, George | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc.) | Kenyon, James | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Kimber, Henry | Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Lafone, Alfred | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Strauss, Arthur |
| Colomb, Sir Jno. Chas. Ready | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller | Strutt, Hon. Chas. Hedley |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Lowe, Francis William | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Lowles, John | Tomlinson, Wm. Ed. Murray |
| Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Valentia, Viscount |
| Curzon, Rt. Hn. G. N. (Lanc S. W.) | Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Curzon, Viscount (Bucks) | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Dalrymple, Sir Charles | M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) | Webster, Sir R. E. (I. of W.) |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir Jno. P. | Macdona, John Cumming | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Maclure, Sir John William | Williams, Josh. Powell- (Birm.) |
| Drucker, A. | Malcolm, Ian | Wilson, J. W. (Worc. N.) |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Martin, Richard Biddulph | Wodehouse, Edm. R. (Bath) |
| Edwards, Gen. Sir J. Bevan | Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Wyndham, George |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Milward, Colonel Victor | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Monckton, Edward Philip | |
| Fison, Frederick William | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Fletcher, Sir Henry | More, Robert Jasper | Sir William Walrond and |
| Flower, Ernest | Morrell, George Herbert | Mr. Anstruther. |
| NOES. | ||
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Birrell, Augustine | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) |
| Brigg, John | Goddard, Daniel Ford | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarsh.) |
| Buchanan, Thos. Ryburn | Hammond, John (Carlow) | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Caldwell, James | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Jordan, Jeremiah | Tully, Jasper |
| Commins, Andrew | Lambert, George | Ure, Alexander |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Lyell, Sir Leonard | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| Crilly, Daniel | Macaleese, Daniel | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Daly, James | M'Hugh, E. (Armagh, S.) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Denny, Colonel | M'Hugh, Patrick A. (Leitrim) | |
| Doogan, P. C. | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Duckworth, James | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Captain Pirie and Dr. |
| Dunn, Sir William | Pease, Joseph A. (Northumb.) | Clark. |
| Ellis, Thos. Ed. (Merionethsh) | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |