§
Amendment proposed—
Page 2, line 6, leave out clause 3."—(Mr. Warner.)
§ MR. COURTNEY WARNERI beg leave to move the omission of clause 3, which provides as to the numbers authorised by the Army Act. I think it is perfectly unconstitutional that these extra men should be drawn from the Reserve. There is no precedent for such a thing, and presently I shall be able to show that there is no object in it, for it is one of the special privileges that this House has always claimed that they shall vote the standing Army year by year. Now, this clause is a means of enabling the Government to raise 5,000 men, if Her Majesty's Government chooses to do so, without the consent of the House. This is perfectly unnecessary, because whenever extra troops have been needed this House has always been ready to support the proposal. Even in days gone by, when recruiting was good, the Army has very seldom reached the number of men voted. Now these new battalions are starting, I think we should be perfectly safe in not putting in this clause, because the number of men voted by this House is sure to give certainly 5,000 men, which is the number which the Government desire to be able to call out without any difficulty or extreme feeling in this House. I hope the right honourable Gentleman will give way upon this point, and I am sure that if he will consult his colleagues, they will agree that it is certainly unnecessary, and that from a Parliamentary point of view it is most unconstitutional.
§ MR. BRODRICKThis proposal rests entirely on a misapprehension of the position. Parliament having already voted the men and the money for them, the honourable Gentleman now proposes one of two contingencies—either that we should put them into the Estimates twice over, or that we should trust to luck. That is a contention which is almost, if I may be allowed to say so, grotesque, and the honourable Gentleman must forgive me if I decline to treat this Amendment seriously.
§
Question put—
That clause 3 stand part of the Bill.
§ The House divided:—Ayes 188; Noes 59.—(Division List No. 132.)
1249| AYES. | ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Flannery, Fortescue | More, Robert Jasper |
| Ambrose, Wm. (Middlesex) | Fletcher, Sir Henry | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Arrol, Sir William | Folkestone, Viscount | Morrison, Walter |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H. | Forwood, Rt. Hon. Sir A. B. | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Mount, William George |
| Bainbridge, Emerson | Garfit, William | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Gedge, Sydney | Murray, Colonel W. (Bath) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch) | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Myers, William Henry |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M.H. (Bristol) | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Bemrose, Sir Henry Howe | Goschen, Rt. Hn. G.J.(St.Geo's) | Phillpotts, Captain Arthur |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Goschen, G. J. (Sussex) | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Beresford, Lord Charles | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Priestley, Sir W. O. (Edin.) |
| Bethell, Commander | Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Purvis, Robert |
| Birrell, Augustine | Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) | Pym, C. Guy |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Gull, Sir Cameron | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Bond, Edward | Haldane, Richard Burdon | Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l) |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G. | Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. W. | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Sir C. T. |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Hanson, Sir Reginald | Robinson, Brooke |
| Brassey, Albert | Hardy, Laurence | Round, James |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Heath, James | Rutherford, John |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs) | Helder, Augustus | Samuel, H. S. (Limehouse) |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Henderson, Alexander | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Chaloner, Capt. R. G. W. | Hill, Rt. Hn. Lord A. (Down) | Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.(Birm.) | Hoare, E. B. (Hampstead) | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Howell, William Tudor | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Hozier, Hon. James Henry C. | Skewes-Cox, Thomas |
| Charrington, Spencer | Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn | Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Clarke, Sir E. (Plymouth) | Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. G. | Stanley, Lord (Lancs) |
| Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse | Strauss, Arthur |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Kemp, George | Sturt, Hon. Humphry N. |
| Colomb, Sir John C. R. | Kenrick, William | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Compton, Lord Alwyne | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. Wm. | Talbot, Rt Hn J.G.(Oxf'dUniv.) |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | King, Sir Henry Seymour | Tennant, Harold John |
| Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Lafone, Alfred | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Corbett, A. C. (Glasgow) | Lawrence, Sir E. (Cornwall) | Tomlinson, W. E. Murray |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes S. W. | Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Cox, Robert | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Walton, John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Lecky, Rt. Hon. Wm. E. H. | Ward, Hon R. A. (Crewe) |
| Crombie, John William | Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Curzon, Viscount (Bucks) | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Webster, Sir R. E. (I. of W.) |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Loder, Gerald Walter E. | Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E. |
| Davenport, W. Bromley- | Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverp'l) | Whiteley, H. (Ashton-und-L.) |
| Denny, Colonel | Lowe, Francis William | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Lubbock, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Williams, J. Powell (Birm.) |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Lucas-Shadwell, William | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Willox, Sir .John Archibald |
| Fardell, Sir T. George | Maclean, James Mackenzie | Wilson, J. W. (Worc'sh. N.) |
| Farquharson, Dr. Robert | Maclure, Sir John William | Wodehouse, E. R. (Bath) |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn E. | McArthur, Wm. (Cornwall) | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Ferguson, R. C. M. (Leith) | McCalmont, H. L. B. (Cambs) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J. (Manch.) | McEwan, William | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | McKillop, James | Young, Com. (Berks, E.) |
| Finch, George H. | Milner, Sir Frederick George | Younger, William |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Milton, Viscount | |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Milward, Colonel Victor | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| FitzGerald, Sir R. Penrose- | Monckton, Edward Philip | Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Montagu, Hon. J. S. (Hants) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Hazell, Walter | Roberts, J. H. (Denbighsh.) |
| Allison, Robert Andrew | Healy, Maurice (Cork) | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Holden, Sir Angus | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos. M. |
| Brigg, John | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | Shaw, Charles E. (Stafford) |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Jacoby, James Alfred | Shee, James John |
| Brunner, Sir John T. | Jones, Win. (Carnarvonshire) | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Knox, E. F. Vesey | Strachey, Edward |
| Burt, Thomas | Lambert, George | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Caldwell, James | Langley, Batty | Wallace, Robert (Perth) |
| Cameron, Sir C. (Glasgow) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Clark, Dr. G. B. (Caithness) | Leng, Sir John | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| Clough, Walter Owen | Macaleese, Daniel | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Colville, John | Maddison, Fred. | Williams, John C. (Notts) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Wilson, H. J. (Yorks, W.R.) |
| Doogan, P. C. | Morgan, J. L. (Carmarthen) | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Ffrench, Peter | Norton, Capt. Cecil Wm. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Foster, Sir W. (Derby Co.) | Nussey, Thomas Willans | |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Pease, Jos. A. (Northumb.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Harwood, George | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh | Mr. Warner and Mr. Pirie. |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon, Chas. Seale- | Roberts, John B. (Eifion) |
Resolution agreed to.
§ MR. BRODRICKI trust the House will now allow the Bill to be read a third time. Although this discussion has shown a difference of opinion with regard to some details, I venture to think that no exception has been taken to its general provisions.
§
Motion made and question put—
That the Bill be now read a third time.
§ Agreed to.