§ Order for Second Reading read.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYI am particularly anxious, not only for the convenience of Members, but for that of other people involved in the proceedings of the House, and whom I need not specify, that this should not be a late sitting. I should be glad to take the Bill, but I cannot possibly continue the Debate for any length of time.
§ MR. CALDWELL (Lanarkshire, Mid)I think it very much better that a Bill of this importance and magnitude should not be placed before the House at the close of the Session, and especially a Session like this, because the Bill introduces new principles into the matter of education, and it alters, in the most material respect, the law as regards superannuation as it at present exists in the provinces. Now, this Bill has been kept back until the very last few weeks of the Session, and the educational authorities, both in England and in Scotland, have had no opportunity of considering its provisions. It is, of course, very important that they should consider them. But certainly they cannot have a discussion upon them at the present time, and therefore I do urge that this Bill should not be pressed. I do not think the Government will be saving the time of the House if they force on the Second Heading of the Bill at the present time. They know 638 perfectly well that a Bill of this kind has to go through the Committee stage. They also know very well that if they attempt to force a Bill such as the present through that stage it can be delayed by many means, and therefore I repeat that they will not be saving time by taking the Second Reading on the present occasion. Now, there is no particular hurry for having this Bill read a second time to-day. According to the Bill, it is not to take effect until the 1st of April next, and even then there is power given to the Education Department to postpone the operation of the Act for a period not exceeding three months. We are in this position, that this Bill can be perfectly well taken at the beginning of next Session. The Government have not foreshadowed any Measure of great importance for next year, there is nothing in this Bill which can in any way prevent its being brought on at an early period of the Session, and the delay till then can cause no injustice to anyone. This Bill is the outcome of a considerable amount of pressure on the part of the teachers, who have been exercising upon honourable Members pressure in regard to superannuation. It is obvious that this House upon various questions is being subjected to a large and increasing amount of pressure in regard to the introduction of Bills which have for their object the personal advantage of parties who are banded together in negotiations, and members of the teaching profession particularly are in this position: that they are so fortunate as to have a Member not merely on the Opposition side of the House, but also one on the Ministerial Benches. Both honouraule Members are highly respected by this House, and they are able to exercise a considerable amount of influence upon 639 Parliament. But there is this danger, that a Bill of this importance may be pushed through by the process of lobbying without giving time for that due consideration which a Measure of this kind undoubtedly demands. Now, in the case of Scotland, which is affected by this Bill, there is at present a Superannuation Act, and this Bill proposes to alter the terms of that Act. According to the law now obtaining in Scotland any school board may superannuate a teacher upon his resigning his position, and the board has the most perfect liberty in the matter. It has optional powers, and it is not tied down either in regard to the age of the teacher or with respect to the amount of the pension. I may say this, that in the application of the Superannuation Act in Scotland school boards there have been very liberal, and they have given allowances beyond those which would be permitted by this Bill. Therefore, so far as the teachers of Scotland are concerned, they have at the present moment greater privileges than even this Bill would confer upon them. It may be said1, of course, that these privileges are dependent on the good will of the school board, and do not exist as a matter of right, and that the advantage of this Bill is that it would confer that right, and would give the Scotch teachers a claim to compensation which could not be resisted by the school boards. Under the system prevailing in Scotland, if a teacher wishes to secure a superannuation allowance, it is to his advantage to remain in one school as long as possible, so as to earn his pension in that school, and therefore he is induced to refuse any offers of an increased salary which might be made to him by other educational authorities. As his pension is not compulsory, he finds it to be to his interest to do his best to promote the education of the district in which he lives, so as to earn his pension, and it might be suggested that if this Act were passed that inducement would 640 no longer exist, because under this Bill any teacher, no matter how he performed his duty—and he might do it in the most perfunctory manner—would still be entitled by the Measure to get his pension. The Bill introduces a novel principle, so far as educational interests are concerned. I am not going to discuss the merits of the existing law of superannuation in Scotland, but I am bound to point out that the change which this Bill would bring about is one which requires very serious consideration on the part of the House, and a consideration which it is impossible that this House can give it in the few remaining days of this Session. Then there is another point to be borne in mind. We have on the Orders of the Day the Local Taxation (Scotland) Bill, which, I venture to say, will take up a very considerable amount of the time of the House, and that, again, surely, is an excuse for not pressing this Superannuation Bill. May I further point out that the effect of superannuating teachers will be this, that you will be reducing the number of teachers who are certificated and available for teaching in our elementary schools, and at the same time you will not be making any provision for a supply to fill the vacancies existing and prospective. Before you get power to superannuate and reduce the number of teachers you ought to make provision for filling the vacancies; you ought to have a sufficient number of teachers for the purpose of carrying on your educational work. Everyone knows that certificated trained teachers are really the only suitable teachers for the teaching profession, and great complaint is made, not merely in Scotland, but also in England, that you have not a sufficient supply of such teachers. What is the position in which we find ourselves placed in Scotland? The number of teachers you turn out yearly—and I will take together the day training colleges and the residential colleges—the 641 total number of teachers you turn out yearly is 2,200, and the Department tell us that in order to meet the annual waste of 6 per cent. on 56,000 teachers you require 3,600 teachers in addition to those which may be necessitated by the increased attendance of children. Yet you are doing nothing by this Bill to secure an increased supply of teachers. You will not be even providing for the annual waste, and much less for the positions which will have to be created in view of the increased attendance of children at school. I do suggest that we ought to encourage by every possible means the training of teachers, because it is our duty to do away as far as possible, with untrained teachers. If the Government bring in a Bill the effect of which will be to give a superannuation allowance to those who have passed through the training colleges in the future, a Bill which shall not apply to the past, then I can perfectly well conceive how a Bill of that kind will pro-mote the interests of education. Then, as a matter of fact, you would be able to increase the supply of teachers. Another point to be borne in mind is this, that the teachers, if they once get the right to superannuation, will also raise the question of fixity of tenure, and here we have a point which requires very serious consideration indeed. If, for instance, the Department dismissed a teacher, he would have a grievance, because his pension would be endangered, and here, again, I think there is a difficulty in the Bill which the promoters have not realised. Practically, teachers will not be removable in either Voluntary or Board schools. Therefore, looking at the changes which the Bill will produce, I think it is only reasonable that the Bill shall be postponed until next Session, so as to give the Government plenty of time to obtain the advice of educational authorities throughout the country. The postponement would not necessitate any serious delay in the date 642 of bringing it into operation. It is not creditable that a Measure of this kind should be forced upon the House at this period of the Session, when we cannot possibly do justice to the subject. The teachers in Scotland have not been consulted in the matter, yet by this Bill they will be called upon to make their election within 12 months, whether they will accept the provisions of the Bill or whether they will hold by the terms of the Act now in force in Scotland. They have had no opportunity of discussing the Bill, which is being rushed through the House, and I think, therefore, that in the interests of education this matter should be postponed. Instead of moving the Amendment which stands in my name, I will move that this Debate be now adjourned.
§ MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen, N.)seconded the Motion.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYI am very reluctant to adjourn the Debate, but I confess that I do not see how we can possibly go on with the Bill this afternoon in face of what I have already explained to the House. We do not desire to have an extended sitting, and therefore I think the best plan would be that, instead of taking Supply on Monday, we should put down Bills for that day. I am very sorry to be obliged to take that course, because it will necessitate the prolongation of the Session by one day, but, under the circumstances, I cannot see any other way out of the difficulty.
§ MR. BROADHURST (Leicester)I exceedingly regret that the Leader of the House has come to the decision to adjourn this Bill to another day.
§ MR. BROADHURSTBecause the Bill is supported universally.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYI am going to take it on Monday.
§ MR. BROADHURSTWill it be the first Order?
§
Question put—
That the Debate be now adjourned.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Debate to be resumed on Monday next.