ARMY (SUPPLEMENTARY) ESTIMATES 1897–8. (Hansard, 25 February 1898)

§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY
I understand an engagement was entered into by the Government that the Vote first in order should not be discussed until a certain Return should be in the hands of hon. Members, and, unfortunately, that Return has been delayed. In these circumstances I would suggest that the Committee should proceed with the Supplementary Estimates. I think that would be a convenient course, if it is in order.

§ MR. A. F. JEFFREYS (Hants, Basingstoke)
I understand the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War to say that certain hon. Members here who have been in the Army did not represent the views of the soldiers.

§ *SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
Not at all.

§ MR. JEFFREYS
I, at any rate, can claim to represent a great number of soldiers, because there are hundreds of soldiers on the register in my constituency. The particular soldiers' grievance that I wish now to call to the right hon. Gentleman's attention is with regard to clothing and additional allowances. In 1896 the Secretary of State for War appointed a Committee to inquire into the question, and they recommended that certain additions should be made to the regulation allowance. Now, although that Report was made in November, 1896, since that time nothing whatever has been done; and I wish to ask the Secretary of State why the recommendation of the Committee has not been carried out. I know that there is a very substantial grievance in reference to this matter, and I think when an influential Committee has made a Report of this kind we are entitled to know why their recommendations are ignored.

§ *MR. TOMLINSON (Preston)
referred to the position of Quartermasters in the Volunteer Service, and urged that they ought to be allowed the privilege accorded to other Volunteer officers of an allowance of £10 on joining and another £10 on passing examination. He also referred to the regulations under which Volunteer Engineer officers were only allowed to attend the school at Chatham in May, that month being an inconvenient one, on account of the pressure of professional duties at that time of year.

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (Mr. J. POWELL-WILLIAMS,) Birmingham, S.
I am not in a position to-night to give the hon. Member for Preston any very definite reply, but the matters to which he has called attention shall be looked into, and his suggestions will, of course, receive attention. With regard to the question of the hon. Mem- 133 ber for Basingstoke, I may inform him that the subject of allowances for soldiers' clothing is now the subject of communication between the War Office and the commanding officers. With regard to boots, that matter is under the consideration of the Director of Clothing. I myself have tried Army boots with more or less success. I can assure the hon. Member that the matter is not an easy one to deal with, but it is certainly not being lost sight of.

§ MR. D. F. GODDARD (Ipswich)
I fail to see how this Vote can come under the head of Supplementary Estimates at all, because, as I understand it, the money is not required for the present financial year; it is really money voted in advance for the next year. If that is so, I should like to know why the Vote is brought forward at all as a Supplementary Estimate.

§ COLONEL SIR HOWARD VINCENT (Sheffield, Central)
The Returns for last year showed a lamentable falling off in the number of efficient Volunteers. I do hope that the War Office will pause and look carefully into any propositions that are put before them, and take care that they do not adopt any regulations of a kind which will hamper the Volunteers in attaining efficiency.

§ MR. J. DALY (Monaghan, S.)
As a large portion of this Vote will be spent in the purchase of horses, I would like as an Irish Member, to urge upon the Government that horses for the Army should be purchased in Ireland. It is ridiculous that, for the sake of a trifling saving in cost, the American article should be preferred to the ideal and genuine article, the Irish horse. I, as an Irish Member, protest against this huge sum of money being voted away at this late hour, particularly as I am sure that many of my hon. Friends had no idea that the Vote would be taken to-night. I should have liked to press upon the Government that, in the supply of provisions for the Army, preference should be given to home-grown over 134 foreign produce. It is scandalous that the meat supplied to our troops should be purchased abroad, when there is ample supply at home—I care not whether it be Yorkshire hams or Limerick bacon. Then as to fodder, if it is true that we are actually largely dependent on Russian oats, or that Russian oats, at any rate, are largely purchased for the Army, that is a state of things which does the Government no credit. I think we should have some pledge from the right hon. Gentleman that attention will be given to this matter.

§ *MR. W. WOODALL (Hanley)
I hope I he right hon. Gentleman will be able to give the House some information with regard to the contracts for the supply of cordite, and as to the manufacture of which there is understood to have been lately a considerable increase.

*MR. POWELL-WILLIAMS
With regard to the question of cordite, the Government, some time ago, entered into a contract with certain contractors to deliver a large amount of cordite, and the contractors are sending in cordite now under that contract. But in view of the largely-increased use of this powder, the policy of the War Office is to avoid being dependent upon one source of supply only, and arrangements have been made with the private trade for meeting the increased demand. With regard to the Volunteer Grant, it is true, as the hon. Member for Ipswich said, that part of this money is really voted in advance. It was proposed, by arrangement with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to pay the Grant earlier, and, as only one half the Grant was taken in the Estimates last year, the sum necessary to make up the full grant is included in this Supplementary Estimate. Then the hon. Member for South Monaghan urged that preference should be given to home-grown as against foreign produce. It is impracticable to make any hard and fast rule in these matters, but I can certainly say that in the case of meat, where prices are equal, 135 preference is given, and will be given, to home-grown meat. With regard to oats, the hon. Member says that a large proportion of the supply is drawn from Russia. It may be so, but we do not know it to be so. We have contracts with contractors for the supply of oats, and so long as the oats supplied are satisfactory, we do not inquire into their origin. But I may mention that the Field Marshal commanding the forces in Ireland has the fullest authority to resort to local sources of supply if he finds it practicable to do so. I should like to say that I had not any expectation that this Vote would be taken to-night, otherwise I should have come prepared to answer hon. Members in rather more detail. With regard to horses, it is the custom to go to Ireland for our Army horses as far as possible; but it is the opinion of Cavalry officers that Irish horses are in several respects not the best for particular foreign services. For instance, it was found that horses bred in the moist atmosphere of Ireland suffered considerably in Egypt, and were unserviceable for military purposes in the dry climate of that country.

§ MR. M. J. FLAVIN (Kerry, N.)
With regard to Irish horses, it is rather a strange thing to me, at all events as an Irishman, that, with buyers coming from France, from Germany, and from all over the world, our horses should be said to be not good enough for the British Army.

		£
Vote 5.	Volunteer Corps, Pay, and Allowances	263,000
Vote 6.	Transports and Remounts	130,000
Vote 7.	Provisions, Forage, and other Supplies	176,000
Vote 8.	Clothing Establishments and Services	220,000
Vote 9.	Warlike and other Stores	413,000
Vote 10.	Works, etc	103,000
		1,305,000
Appropriation in Aid (Vote 1)	15,000
	Total	£1,290,000."