CLAUSE 5. (Hansard, 3 August 1898)

§ VISCOUNT CRANBORNE
My object in moving this Amendment is to make the clause clear to the ordinary layman, and to ensure that the increase of 3d. for each year shall be given. I do not think it possible for any ordinary Member of Parliament who has not very carefully studied the Report of the Select Committee, on which this Bill was founded, to have the least conception of the meaning of sub-section (a), which reads us follows— The rate of superannuation allowance for each complete year of recorded service may be increased in the case of a man by 3d., and in the case of a woman by 2d., for each complete year of recorded service served before the commencement of this Act. For some reason or other the Government have, I suppose, been anxious to 1091 make the Bill as short as possible, and they have made it very obscure. Of course, the reply will be that the Department will interpret it, but, really, they might as well have stated that the pensions were to be given, and then added "Abracadabra," and said they would interpret it. The Vice-President should explain to the Committee exactly what the financial proposals of the Bill are. That is usual in a comprehensive Measure of this kind.

§ SIR J. GORST
I do not think the clause can be misunderstood. Its meaning is perfectly clear. The alteration proposed by the noble Lord is in one sense a harmless one, because the clause, as altered by the Amendment, will mean exactly what it means now.

§ VISCOUNT CRANBORNE
What does it mean now?

§ SIR J. GORST
It says exactly what it means—that the superannuation is 10s. and 3d. extra for each year.

§ MR. DILLON
May I suggest that the clause be sent to the Foreign Office?

§ MR. CRIPPS
I am one of those persons who have experienced great difficulty in trying to understand subsection (a). Might I ask the right honourable Gentleman the Vice-President if it means that a teacher who has had 40 years' service will get £40 a year? I understand that a teacher with 40 years' service at the present time would not be entitled to any pension, but under this Bill he will get £40 a year from the Treasury.

§ SIR J. GORST
When he is 65.

§ MR. CRIPPS
If that is so, there is no doubt the words proposed by the noble Lord would make it very much clearer than the words at present in the Bill. As a matter of fact, the intention of the Bill is made as difficult as possible to understand.

§ MR. GEDGE
My interpretation of the sub-section is totally different to that of the honourable and learned Member.

§ MR. BARTLEY
I quite agree with my noble Friend who has moved this 1092 Amendment, that the sub-section ought to be worded in such a way that any ordinary person could understand it. At present there are two or three different ways of reading it, and the teachers are doubtful as to what amount of superannuation they will get.

§ VISCOUNT CRANBORNE
I think I am entitled to an assurance from the right honourable Gentleman that he will make that sub-section clear.

§ SIR J. GORST
I give you that assurance. I will make it as clear as possible.