HC Deb 29 March 1897 vol 47 cc1570-1
MR. G. MURNAGHAN (Tyrone, Mid)

I beg to ask the Vice President of the Committee of Council on Education (1) whether the new rules of the Science and Art Department provide that a pupil on the roll of National Schools in Ireland cannot be enrolled in a science class; and (2) whether the shares of the Science and Art Grant that Ireland received last year is proportional to 9/80ths of the amount paid to England; and, if not, will steps be taken in future to divide the grant on this basis?

SIR J. GORST

The answer to paragraph (1) is in the affirmative, but for this session schools have the option of working under the old rules. The Irish schools only earned 6/80ths of the total Science and Art Grant for 1895–96; but, it is open to Ireland to earn a larger proportion under the Regulations of the Science and Art Department, which are the same for the whole of the United Kingdom.

MR. MURNAGHAN

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is not the fact that, owing to the new rules made by the Education Department it is impossible for the Irish schools to obtain the grants they formerly obtained?

SIR J. GORST

The hon. Gentleman is under a misconception. The Irish schools are treated in exactly the same way as the English schools, not only by the Education Department but by the Science and Art Department.

MR. KNOX

I beg to ask the Vice President of the Committee of Council on Education (1) whether by the new rules of the Science and Art Department results fees gained in the Irish Intermediate Examinations are ordered to be treated as endowments, and deducted from any sum earned as science and art result fees; and (2) whether the same rule has been applied in the case of grants made to schools in Great Britain under the Local Taxation (Customs and Excise) Act, or in Wales under the Intermediate Education Act; and, if not, what is the reason for treating the schools in the two countries on a different basis?

SIR J. GORST

The statements in the first paragraph are correct, except that the fees will only be deducted from the sum earned for elementary mathematics, as is done with English endowments. The grants mentioned in the second paragraph are not endowments, and the rules referred to do not apply to them.

MR. KNOX

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the greater part of the intermediate education allowances comes from precisely the same equivalent grant as that out of which the sums are paid to the County Councils in England; and will he reconsider his decision?

SIR J. GORST

I do not think the hon. Gentleman's statement is correct.