§ MR. PHILIP STANHOPE (Burnley)rose to move, on Class 2, Vote 5 (Salary of Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs), to reduce the item by £1,666. He said it would be remembered that his hon. Friend the Member for Northampton took advantage of the Committee stage to move a similar reduction in the salary of the Secretary of State, for Foreign Affairs, but the First Lord of the Treasury said he thought the opportunity chosen was a bad one, because the Opposition had not thought it proper to raise the subject on a Vote of Censure. He believed the only reason why this matter had not been raised in that way by Gentlemen on the Front Opposition Bench was because the Leader of au Opposition was unfortunately ill and unable to be in the House. He had no doubt that when the right hon. Gentle man was again amongst them he would seize an early opportunity of taking up that challenge. ["Hear, hear!"] However that might be, it was the duty of independent Members of the Opposition to take every opportunity of raising this question, and particularly at the present moment. Since the last occasion on which they had had a Debate on the question, there had been developments of a most unsatisfactory, dangerous and alarming character in the affairs of Crete. ["Hear, hear!"] The First Lord of the Treasury some three weeks ago told the House that the policy of Her Majesty's Government was to secure the peace of Europe and the freedom of the island of Crete, So far as the peace of Europe 1657 was concerned, affairs never looked more menacing—100,000 men on one side, and 60,000 men on the other, were prepared to rush into war, and no action on the part of the Concert of Europe seemed likely to prevent it. ["Hear, hear!"] On the other hand, the freedom of Crete was being assisted by the bombardment of the insurgents by the Fleets of the six Powers. ["Hear, hear!"] That night, in answer to a Question by his hon. Friend the Member Northampton, a series of interesting extracts front dispatches was read by the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs front the Admiral commanding the British Fleet. That officer gave some exceedingly unsatisfactory details as to the action of the British Fleet in those waters, and it must have been with universal regret that the House heard that British troops had been played into their quarters by Turks to the strain of their national air. [Cheers.] The British Admiral made use of this remarkable expression:—"The general situation in the island is, that the forces of Colonel Vassos have declared war on the Great Powers." He would have said that the Great Powers had declared war on Colonel Vassos and his gallant men, who came as brothers-in-arms to help the Cretans when they were struggling for freedom. ["Hear, hear!"] All sympathy for the Cretans seemed now to have vanished. There was nothing but a desire to use pressure and force in order to prevent the success of Greece, and to impose on the Cretans an autonomy they did not want. ["Hear, hear!"] They had been taunted with having no policy. That was not the case. Their policy was, first, that the Government should signify that all Turkish troops should be immediately withdrawn from Crete; secondly, that they should cooperate with the Greek troops in pacifying the island; and thirdly, that the autonomy should be under Greek influences, with some governor at its head agreeable to Greek ideas, and should be merely a step towards the eventual union of Crete with Greece. ["Hear, hear!"] Let the Government have the courage of their convictions, and unless they could secure freedom in Crete and tranquillity to Europe, let them take no part in that Concert of Europe which had signally failed to perform its objects. They had received tidings of another mas- 1658 sacre in Armenia, where, according to different accounts, 400 or 700 Armenians had been slaughtered at Tokat. What had the Concert of Europe done during the last two years in order to save these unhappy Armenians? If they had failed in Armenia, do not let them repeat the blunder in Crete. The Turkish troop had shown a disposition to evacuate Crete. He called upon the Government to show themselves willing, not only to be a member of the Concert of Europe but to be representative of the British people, who were determined that liberty and freedom should not be destroyed. He begged to move the Motion standing in his name.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYI hope the House will not follow the hon. Gentleman in repeating these fragmentary, inconclusive, and unsatisfactory Debates upon the difficult question which has now arisen in the East of Europe. ["Hear, hear!"] If the hon. Gentleman is genuinely anxious, as I do not doubt he is, about the freedom of Crete—by which I understand him to mean the freedom of Crete from Turkish domination—I can assure him that his action is absolutely unnecessary. He has asked for a distinct pledge from. Her Majesty's Government on the subject. I confess I had thought that our policy had been stated in the clearest terms before [Cheers.] But if there is any ambiguity hanging over our statements, I now beg to dissipate it for the hon. Gentleman's benefit by declaring, as I do, in the clearest terms that can be used in connection with the subject, that the Great Powers in general, and this country in particular, feel themselves pledged to give autonomy to Crete, and by autonomy we distinctly mean that Crete shall not henceforth be subjected to the domination, in her affairs, of Constantinople and the Porte. [Cheers.] That is a statement which I trust will relieve the hon. Gentleman from the anxiety he tells us he feels on the subject; and, having relieved him from that anxiety, I hope nothing will be done to prolong the Debate, which, if it can have any effect at all—beyond keeping us up to an unusually late hour tonight—would have the effect perhaps of hampering the Government in carrying out a policy which I understand the hon. Gentleman himself approves. That being the case, I trust he will not press his 1659 Motion to a Division, and that he and his Friends will agree with me in thinking that the sooner this Debate is brought to a close the better for the general interests of Europe and the dignity of this House. [Cheers.]
§ MR. JAMES BRYCE (Aberdeen, S.)said the right hon. Gentleman seemed to think that enough had been said when he had pointed out that a pledge of autonomy had been given to Crete. They were all aware that such a pledge had been given; but, what they had said before and what they must repeat now was, that the present situation in Crete was due to the failure of the Powers to take the obvious method of pacifying Crete—namely, the withdrawal of the Turkish troops, which were a standing provocation to disorder in the island. In the second place, they must ask again that there must be a clear declaration of the terms of this promised autonomy. At present it was confined to the word "autonomy"—
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYI beg the right hon. Gentleman's pardon. I distinctly stated in the clearest terms that autonomy means absolute freedom in local concerns from the control of the Porte. [Cheers.]
§ MR. BRYCEsaid that if the right hon. Gentleman had permitted him to finish his sentence, he would have understood that what he had desired to convey was that the pledge given in the House was not known to the insurgents of Crete, and that it ought to be made clear to the insurgents that they were to have a Christian governor, that he was to be irremovable by the Porte; and, above all, that, he was to be free from the possibility of all interference from Constantinople. If a plan of that kind were brought to the knowledge of the insurgents, all the information available led to the belief that fighting would cease, and that the removal of the Turkish troops would be followed by the pacification of the island. The serious danger of war which now threatened not only Crete but the northern frontiers of Greece would then be averted. He would not ask for a further pledge in the House, but an assurance that the Government was going to take the obvious method of pacifying Crete, the only alternative to which was a policy of starvation, or the undertaking of military operations against the insurgents. As to the present position of affairs in 1660 Asia Minor, it was exceedingly alarming. No steps had been taken, as far as was known, to carry out the reforms initiated by Her Majesty's Government in September last. In September the correspondence began; in January the proposals of the Ambassadors had not been brought before the Powers, and apparently the Powers had not yet considered them. It would be said that the disturbances in Crete had intervened. There had been plenty of time before the Cretan troubles began; and, even new, the position of Crete was accentuating the dangers in Asia Minor. It was a matter of as much urgency to prevent further troubles there as to pacify Crete. There was a significant feature about the massacre of the other day. Tokat and Erbah were the only cities which escaped massacre in 1895. It seemed as though the few places in which the Armenian people were beginning to gather again were to be subjected to further massacres; and it was quite clear from the Blue-books, and from the accounts of travellers, that no massacres occurred in Asia Minor unless with the permission of the Palace. The massacre at Tokat was a serious warning of what must be expected unless drastic measures were taken. The premises of the Sultan and his offers of a Commission of inquiry were mere waste paper. He should think the Government now wished that they had taken the advice offered to them in 1895, and had endeavoured to bring about the Sultan's deposition. It was the only efficient remedy. [Cheers.] Unless some measure of that kind were taken, there would be further revolutionary movements. Agitation was now going on, and these attempted insurrections would probably be followed by further massacres. The whole Turkish Empire seemed to be rapidly drifting to an abyss, and unless the Powers of Europe could rouse themselves and limit its powers terrible calamities would ensue to the Cretan subjects of the Porte, and what would be worse a European war. The only escape from this was to at once apply such coercive powers as would destroy the power of the present ruler of Turkey. Only a few weeks or months might be left within which to avert even worse calamities than those of the last few years.
§ MR. DILLONprotested against the proceedings of the Powers described by the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs 1661 at Question time. He declared that the six Great Powers of Europe had declared war on the insurgents.
§ MR. DILLONThe right hon. Gentleman said that the Admirals—who appeared to be the instigators of the situation in Crete—[Ministerial cries of "Oh!"]—had decided on their own responsibility that insurgents in Crete were to be treated as enemies.
MR. CURZONI cannot allow these persistent misinterpretations from hon. Members opposite, more especially from the hon. Member. After detailing the constant attacks made by the insurgents on the positions occupied by the Great Powers I said—in the words of the Admirals—that if these attacks were persisted in the Admirals had decided that it would be necessary to treat the insurgents as enemies. [Opposition, cheers.]
§ MR. DILLONdenied that the insurgents had attacked any position occupied by the Great Powers. He defied the right hon. Gentleman to point to a single instance. In view of the appalling, condition of things, that the six Great Powers should be aiding the Sultan to put down 200,000 unhappy Christians in Crete who had been for months struggling to save themselves from extermination and assassination, it was outrageous that the right hon. Gentleman, to prejudice the ease of these gallant men, should tell the House what was not true. ["Ministerial cries of "Oh!" and "Withdraw!"]
§ MR. SPEAKERIf the hon. Gentleman means to say that the right hon. Gentleman stated what he knows was not true, of course it would be entirely out of order; but I did not understand the hon. Gentleman to imply that. [Irish, cheers.]
§ MR. DILLONsaid that Mr. Speaker had correctly interpreted his remarks. Although the right hon. Gentleman was at the Foreign Office he did not appear to be correctly informed, and he would tell him what did occur, on the authority of The Times and the Standard. [Ministerial laughter.] He observed with amazement that the Tory Party treated with surprise the authority of The Times and the Standard in this matter. What he was about to read was from an eye-witness, and was telegraphed to and published in the Standard 1662 [An HON. Member: "What is his name?"] He is the accredited correspondent of the Standard, a journal favourable to the Tory Party and not very favourable to the Cretan cause. Now what did this gentleman say?—
At about two o'clock the insurgents recommenced firing, one of their guns being pushed forward to within 20 yards of the fort, and an hour later the white flag was hoisted. The Turks were being shelled on both sides, and had had nothing to eat or drink for three days. I at once ran down the hill, and found the fort surrounded by about fifteen hundred Cretans, many of whom had their rifles thrust through crevices in the walls, whilst the approach to the gateway was filled by an excited throng. Luckily, five Greek Regular officers were present, and succeeded in temporarily restraining their men until I arrived, and was able to parley through the gate with a Turkish sergeant, who asked my advice as to whether he should open. Seeing no help for it, I counselled him to do so, and at this moment the fleets, mistaking the white flag for the Greek ensign, fired the first of their shells, knocking off a corner of the wall. Both the Turks and Greeks were at a loss to understand their action in firing on a flag of truce. While I was hastening through the archway, another shell smashed the whole of the masonry, burying two or three men, both Turks and Cretans. This led to a general helter-skelter from the doomed fort, everybody running away at the top of their speed.No wonder they ran at the top of their speed. [Ministerial laughter.] It was very amusing to hon. Gentlemen opposite; but he said it was a, most infamous and scandalous transaction. [Opposition cheers.] According to these English correspondents the result of the action of the Admirals was in the first place to fire on the white flag, and in the second place to throw shells among Turks and Cretans, the first of which buried the Turks under the masonry of their own fort. The Correspondent of The Times confirmed the statement of the Standard correspondent, and said in addition:—As soon as the Christian artillery had rendered further defence impracticable, the Turks raised a white flag, and the whole body of the adjacent insurgents rushed forward. Luckily for the defenders, the first man to enter the fortress was Manos, a young Oxford man, who leads a band of young Cretans called the Hieros Lochos, whom he has equipped. By his personal exertions, and those of one or two others, the insurgents were prevailed upon to spare the lives of 43 prisoners, who were conveyed to Kontopulo, and afterwards to Alikianu. As the Christians were congratulating themselves on their success, Shells from the European warships drove most 1663 of the insurgents to shelter. One heavy shell passed clean through the blockhouse, destroying the greater part of one wall, and killing one Christian and two Turks.Was there ever heard of in civilised or uncivilised warfare such an insane and monstrous proceeding as that? [Opposition cheers.] The Correspondent added that the condition of things in Crete was going rapidly from bad to worse; the Admirals were of opinion something should be done, and it was proposed "that the Turkish troops should be forthwith withdrawn as a condition of the restoration of peace." He thought something should be done with the Admirals to restrain their operations. For his part he said the condition of things in Crete was an outrage on common sense, and the almost unanimous sense of the people of this country. It was idle for the First Lord of the Treasury to come down to the House night after night and make appeals to hon. Members not to engage in discussion—
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYI did not appeal to the House not to engage in discussion. I appealed to them, if they wished to discuss the matter they should discuss it in a manner in which it can be thoroughly thrashed out, and have the common courage to move a Vote of Censure.[Ministerial Cheers.]
§ MR. DILLON(who was received with cries of "Move") said it was the privilege of Leaders of the Opposition to select their own time, and he found no fault with them in having determined not to move a Vote of Censure until the Government had revealed what was heir policy. [Ministerial laughter and Opposition cheers.] It was idle for the First Lord to say that the policy of the Government was a policy of freedom for Crete and peace in Europe. He did not pretend to be in the secrets of the Foreign Office or to be an authority on foreign affairs. [Ironical Ministerial cheers.] He was as little an authority on foreign affairs as the electors who sent hon. Gentlemen opposite to the House. [Laughter.] When the public read the description given by the special correspondents of British troops marching between lines of Turkish troops through the streets of Candia, played to their quarters by a Turkish band, and returning the compliment by playing the 1664 Hamadieh Hymn, he said the feeling would be that the instruments of an English band ought not to be sullied by such strains. [Cheers.] Again, when it was read that on Sunday the British flag was planted side by side with the flag of the Osmanli, on the ramparts of the walls of Candia, in presence of the population of the town, it was idle to say that the Cretans believed that England came to them as friends. [Cheers.] If the Government really meant to win the confidence of the insurgents and to get them to forget the broken promises and the betrayals of last autumn, they ought not to go to them in company with their oppressors and slaughterers. The situation was an outrage on common sense and a mockery. In spite of all the pledges of the Powers, Canea was handed over in February last to a scene of carnage, plunder, and outrage. If the insurgents of Crete were wise men they would keep their arms in their hands. [Cheers.] They could not trust the pledges of the Government. [Cheers.] They could not trust to the friendship of the Admirals, which was only known to them in the form of bursting shells. They could not trust to the military officers at the head of the British troops when they saw them hobnobbing with their oppressors. The insurgents could only trust to three things: to that nation which had never deserted them through centuries of persecution and torture, to the inaccessible nature of their mountains, and to the public opinion of Europe, which, He trusted would yet rise to their relief. The Powers were now to treat them as enemies. What had been their treatment for the last fortnight? In one hand a proclamation of liberty, and on the other hand districts of the island were by blockade reduced to starvation. It would be just is well for the Under Secretary to speak the truth at once, that the public might know what was being done in their name and by English armaments against a people struggling to be free, for he believed the Government would find before long that public opinion was opposed to their action. ["Oh, oh!"]
§ THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. G. CURZON,) Lancashire, SouthportI do not know whether the speech to which we have just listened should be more correctly 1665 described as an outrage or as a farce. [Cheers and cries of "Oh, oh!"] It is an outrage if one expects, in a speech on an important, question in this House, that any attention should be paid by the speaker to truth or reason or fact. [Ministerial cheers.] It is a farce if one expects from such a speech any effect whatever except one of disgust in the mind of the public. [Ministrial cheers.] I have not risen to continue this Debate. ["Oh, oh!"] I have not risen even to repel the charges against myself which the hon. Member has thought fit to make.
§ MR. DILLONBecause you are not able to. [Opposition cheers.]
§ MR. CURZONI have at least as much capacity to defend myself as the hon. Member has to make unmannerly interruptions. [Ministerial cheers; Opposition cries of "Oh, oh!"] I have not risen to defend myself, because, after all, it has merely been my duty to read to the House the official information that we have received from our representatives acting under circumstances of great responsibility and difficulty in Crete—[Ministerial Cheers]—reports which are not lightly to be brushed aside or put aside either on the strength of what may appear in the newspapers or still less on the ipse dixit of the hon. Member for East Mayo. [Ministerial cheers.] The hon. Gentleman has boldly charged the Government with having taken the side of Turkey. ["Hear, hear!"] That charge is absolutely false. [Cheers.] On behalf of the Government I repel it and deny it in toto. [Cheers.] Considering that it has been due to Her Majesty's Government, in the first place, that Crete has been taken from Turkey—[ironical Nationalist laughter and cheers]—and autonomy has been promised and guaranteed to Crete; that the Turkish Government have been prevented from sending reinforcements to the island; that the Turkish troops have been confined within the coast-ports and garrisons of the island; that it has been due to the action of the international troops that the lives of thousands of Christians have been saved; that it has been due to their action that the lives of thousands of Mussulmans, who, after all, are Greeks quite as much as the Christians, have also been saved; considering that the only thing that now stands in the way of a war of absolute 1666 extermination in the island is the presence, of the contingents of the Great Powers and their action, I say it is a monstrous travesty and perversion of the truth to say that the Powers have taken the side of Turkey as against the side of Crete. [Cheers.] Then the hon. Member takes the case of Candia, and says that the contingents of the Powers have there intervened in the interests of the Mussulmans, and he makes a great point about this incident in the streets of the town. I can tell him this—if the troops of the Great Powers had not been landed in Candia many thousands of his friends the insurgents might not be alive at this moment. [Cheers.] He owes it to the action of the Powers that their lives have been saved, and if he cares little or nothing for Mussulinans, even when they are Greeks, as his action when the relief of Candano took place the other day showed—["hear, hear!"]—let him at least show some consideration on behalf of those for whom he professes to speak, but who, I venture to say, would disown any such spokesman. [Nationalist cries of "Oh!" and cheers.] The hon. Member has made a great point about the action of the Admirals during the past few days, and he says that the insurgents are not threatening the posts occupied by the Powers.—[Mr. DILLON: "I said 'attacking.'"]—Well, that they do not attack the positions occupied by the Powers. But what are the facts? The positions occupied by the Powers are commanded by a number of outposts and blockhouses. Does the hon. Member contend that the forces of the Powers are to sit still in the towns and to allow these outposts in the surrounding hills to be occupied by the insurgents, with guns borrowed front the Greeks, with which they are to bombard, and turn out the forces of the Powers from their positions?
§ MR. DILLONWhat I said was that if there was that danger, the troops of the Powers ought to get between the Turks and the insurgents. [Loud laughter.]
§ MR. CURZONI confess that the ideas of the hon. Member as a military strategist fill me with dismay, and I cannot help feeling glad for the sake of the insurgents in the island that they are not led by a gentleman with the military ideas of the hon. Member. [Laughter.] I was pointing out when the hon. Member interrupted me that the insurgents had 1667 been steadily occupying these positions which command the towns, that they had done so in distinct violation and disregard of warnings addessed to them over and over again by the Admirals, that they knew perfectly well the consequences that would ensue from this advance, and that any attack or bombardment to which they may have been subjected was therefore invited by them. To represent such movements as movements on behalf of the Turk or as hostile movements directed against the insurgents qua insurgents, or as an outrage on humanity, is a complete perversion of fact. ["Hear, hear!"] The hon. Gentleman then went on to say that the policy of the Powers was directed not merely to the extermination of the insurgents, but to the starvation of the people. [Nationalist cheers.] What right has he to say so? (Several HON. MEMBERS: "Facts!" and cheers.] By facts the Opposition merely mean what they cull from the newspapers. [Laughter.] The hon. Gentleman is quite unaware of the fact that the Admirals have taken special measures to consider this matter of the food supplies to the people and that they have taken steps and are taking steps to supply provisions to the peaceable inhabitants of the island—[Ironical Opposition laughter.]—so far as the conditions permit them to do so. I have nothing more to add. [Ironical laughter.] I have risen only to repel the most unfair charge brought by the hon. Gentleman to the effect that this country or that the Powers in general are taking one side against the other. Their one object is the restoration of peace and order in the island, and I am bound to say that the attitude taken up by hon. Gentlemen opposite—not, I admit, on the Front Bench—[Mr. LABOUCHERE: "Yes, Bryce!" laughter—but below the Gangway—is an attitude that is not likely to help the Government or to help the Powers in the duty which they have set before them. [Ministerial cheers.]
§ MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! If I knew the hon. Member who made use of that expression, I should call the attention of the House to his conduct. [Ministerial cheers.]
§ SIR R. REID (Dumfries Burghs)said he did not think any advantage would 1668 be gained by entering upon or continuing any spirit of recrimination. The matter to his mind was far too serious; but, accepting the entire accuracy of all the statements of the Under Secretary, was it not a fair inference to the Gentlemen who supported the Government that the present was a very serious position? Cheers and counter cheers.] The policy which the Government had thought wise in the interests of the pacification of Crete had led them into rather a false position. They commenced by reprobating the conduct of Greece, and in consequence of that they proceeded to blockade Crete. He did not see the logic of that position. ["Hear, hear!"] Further they had issued a proclamation which he thought ought to be submitted to the criticism of the House at the earliest possible moment. [Cheers and counter cheers.] He believed that it was going contrary to international law, and when the matter came to be discussed he thought it would be very difficult for the Law Officers to defend a proclamation in which he could not but think from its contents they had no serious part. In addition to that they found that the attempts towards the pacification of Crete were placing us practically in a position of war—of hostile operations, at all events—against the insurgents in the island. He could not help feeling that such operations as the bombardment reported this morning of a village containing nothing but women and children, though they might be lightly cheered by thoughtless supporters of the Government, did not commend themselves to the sober judgment of the older and more experienced Members of the House. [Cheers.] Nobody who thought of it could doubt that this was an extremely grave and serious question. ["Hear, hear!"] He did not intend to dwell upon it, because the subject had so many sides, and could be considered from so many points of view—for example, its bearing on the whole aspect of the Eastern question—["hear, hear"]—that it could not be adequately debated in sporadic discussions. [Ministerial cheers.] His hon. Friend the Member for Burnley was bound, as they had been bound from time to time, to bring it forward, on such occasions as they could command. An offer had been made by the Leader of the House—[Ministerial Cheers]—to the 1669 Leader of the Opposition of a day for the full discussion of this subject. He had not the slightest intimation as to what course might be taken by his right hon. Friend, but he did not doubt that he would take a wise course. In his opinion he was bound to say the wise course was to raise as soon as possible, in such a fashion that they might be able to record their opinion in that House—[Ministerial cheers]—the whole question of the policy of Her Majesty's Government, in Crete. [Cheers and counter cheers] For his part he most deeply deplored that policy. He believed it was unwise, and he could not help thinking that it was now creeping into the minds of some of the friends of the Government and of some Members of the Government itself that it was not so wise and successful as they anticipated. But whether it was right or wrong, he hoped they would have—and he could not doubt from the wisdom of the Leader of the Opposition that they would have—an early opportunity of placing their real views fairly before the House, and of taking the judgment of the House, leaving upon those who chose to support the Government in its policy the heavy responsibility of the course they had adopted. [Cheers.]
§ MR. JOHN ELLIS (Nottingham, Rushcliffe)desired to associate himself entirely both as to matter and tone with what had just fallen from his hon. and learned Friend. He hoped with his hon. and learned Friend that very soon an opportunity might be found and seized of enabling the House to discuss this question in all its length and breadth. He fully acknowledged the gravity of the issues raised. He noticed that his right hon. Friend the Member for Montrose Burghs on Friday night deprecated this question being drawn into the pure Party cauldron. He ventured to deprecate that also, and he believed that there was a great deal more unanimity on this question on both sides of the House as to the way in which the honour, dignity, reputation, and power of this great country should be used in the East, than was sometimes supposed. He did hope they would no Longer be obliged to raise this question in a sporadic manner, as these occasions did not afford to anyone the opportunity to which he was entitled of stating his opinions fairly to the House. Three were 1670 many points which occurred to him on hearing the statement of the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, whose manner certainly left something to be desired. It was not the function of the Under Secretary to treat his colleagues in the House in the way in which the right hon. Gentleman sometimes did. It was always a pleasure to approach the right hon. Gentleman privately, and he wished the right hon. Gentleman would in his place show a little, of that perfect courtesy of Manner which he did in private. But he rose particularly to join with the hon. and learned member for Dumfries in the expression of the hope that they would have an early opportunity of going into this matter in all its details.
§ SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucester, Forest of Dean)said that if the pure forms of the Constitution were observed in reference to the movement of the forces of the Crown, he took it that without any Vote of Censure they would have an opportunity of expressing their view upon the present situation. The expenditure of money on the movement of the Seaforth Highlanders to Crete was a matter on which the House must sooner or later have an opportunity of pronouncing an opinion without the moving of a Vote of Censure. Let him say one word of warning to hon. Gentlemen opposite respecting a Vote of Censure, Hon. Gentleman hoped that the voting on a Vote of Censure would end the opposition to their policy. He remembered circumstances not dissimilar to the present about the time of the treaty of San Stefano. The Leader of the Opposition, Lord Hartington, was unwilling to move a Vote of Censure upon the policy of the Government. A private Member of great authority, Mr. Gladstone, proposed to move a Vote of Censure, but only 110, half the Liberal Party, could be found to promise him their support. What happened? Within three years the country undoubtedly pronounced upon the side of the 110 Members of the House of Commons. At the present time he believed there was a far stronger feeling of profound dissatisfaction in the country at the policy which the Government were pursuing than there was at the policy which was being pursued at the time of which he spoke. The defence of their policy made by the Government was mainly 1671 comprised in the application by Lord Salisbury to the action of the Greek Government and the King of the Hellenes of the term filibustering. The hon. Member cheered that he had the courage of his opinions. [A laugh.] If they looked at the history of Crete, at its connection with Greece on the mainland, if they looked at history, how could they term the Greeks filibusters? The hon. Member, no doubt, had prayed for the success of Garibaldi. His expedition was welcomed universally, and he was praised and fêted as a hero. England employed her strength to prevent the Great Powers menacing him, and now in a case enormously stronger, they applied the term filibuster which the hon. Member himself dared not apply to Garibaldi. They had followed the lead of Germany, who would not herself send troops into this hornets' nest. ["Hear, hear!"] They had placed their fleet under the command of the Italian Admiral, who now, to the shame of Italy, herself made free, was taking the lead in crushing down a far stronger case of national aspirations. What was the next step? He feared it would be the holding of the Greeks responsible for the patriotism of their brethren in Crete. It was to him a most painful thing that the House of Commons should have no opportunity up to the present time of pronouncing upon all these facts. ["Hear, hear!"]
§ SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT (Sheffield, Ecclesall)said that, as usual, the right hon. Gentleman had given the House very bad history. He told them that the Government of Lord Beaconsfield was defeated in 1880 in consequence of its Eastern policy. The Government of Lord Beaconsfield was defeated for many reasons, but mainly because of the unfortunate condition of trade in this country. [Laughter.] Would anyone deny that if Lord Beaconsfield had gone to the country in 1878, after his triumphant return from Berlin, he would have been returned with an overwhelming majority? The second bit of bad history was comparing Garibaldi's expedition with the expedition of the Greeks to Crete. The Cretans were sure of autonomy before the Greeks went to Crete. They went there, not on behalf of Cretan freedom, but to prevent Cretan autonomy. ["No!"] The great factor which hon. 1672 Gentlemen ignored was that there were 70,000 Mussulmans driven from their homes by the Cretan insurgents, whose lives and honour depended absolutely on the protection of the Great Powers. The hon. Gentleman opposite, who had advocated the mutilation of cattle and boycotting, was the last man who ought to interpose—[Loud Irish cries of "Order!" and "Withdraw!"]
MR. T. M. HEALYI would ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether it is in order for the hon. Member to impute to the hon. Gentleman the Member for East Mayo that he has advocated the mutilation of cattle? [Cheers.]
§ MR. SPEAKERIt is certainly not in order. [Cheers, and cries of "Withdraw, withdraw!"]
§ SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTI was referring, Mr. Speaker, to records of the hon. Member's speeches that are printed in the Parnell Commission. [Cries of "Order!" and "Withdraw!"]
§ MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member must not use expressions of that kind in reference to an hon. Member sitting in this House. [Cheers.]
§ SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTOf course, Sir, if you rule that I am not allowed to refer to speeches made by the hon. Gentleman I withdraw my statement. He was saying that the hon. Gentleman from his record was the last man who ought to pose as a Christian philanthropist in the House. [Cheers.] The hon. Gentleman who misrepresented the action of the British Admiral, and cast a slur on our gallant soldiers because they marched into a town where Turkish troops were stationed, to whose good conduct every officer, English and foreign, in Crete had borne witness, had not said a word of pity for these unfortunate Mussulmans. The hon. Gentleman had not a single word of pity for these Cretan Mussulmans, although in the same paper he had quoted, he might have read an account of the atrocious massacre of hundreds Of them who were deluded by false promises to give up their arms, and were taken out from the mosques in which they had taken refuge, and barbarously murdered. When the truth was known he did not believe the people of this country would hold the opinions of hon. Gentlemen opposite, and he sincerely hoped the House would have an opportunity of having a complete Debate on this question. When they did he was satisfied the 1673 verdict of the country would be the same as that of the House.
§ MR. W. ALLAN (Gateshead)regretted that the challenge which was given by the First Lord of the Treasury was not accepted by the Leader of the Opposition, as he thought it would have saved a great deal of time and thrown much light on the subject. He endorsed the sentiments of the hon. Gentleman who had spoken in favour of this matter being thrashed out, either by a Vote of Censure, or by some other mode. He hoped their leaders would accept the challenge. If the Government wanted peace in the island the simplest way would be to order the Turkish troops out of it—["hear, hear!"]—and then call on the insurgents to lay down their arms. What was the use of wasting powder and shell, and getting a lot of barnacles on their ships when it would be so easy to settle the matter? He would ask the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs if the Cretans had decided for annexation to Greece why the Government prevented it? And if they wanted to give the Cretans autonomy why did they go to war with them and blockade them? Then, again, he would ask, if they were agreed upon an autonomy to Crete, what was the nature of that autonomy? Autonomy to Crete without the withdrawal of the Turkish troops would be a farce; and he would like to know what it was that prevented England—great and powerful England—to order the withdrawal of the Turkish troops from the island?
§ MR. ARNOLD-FORSTER (Belfast, W.)said that hitherto Members had to walk by faith, but not by sight, in regard to the policy of the Government in the East of Europe. They should like to have some confirmation of their faith vouchsafed to them, and it would be greatly to their advantage that opportunity should be given to the Government to state a little more clearly than those sporadic occasions had given them the opportunity of doing what really was their position in regard to affairs in the East. They had seen very little up to the present calculated to satisfy their aspirations. There were certain things happening in the East which must be obviously distasteful to every Member of the House, and they would be glad to know what was the overwhelming necessity which compelled 1674 this country to accept those painful results. He wanted, for instance, to see the reason why the English troops in Crete should not be confined to the strictest limits in their intercourse with the Turkish troops. Considering the work the Turkish troops had recently been engaged in, and considering the peculiar circumstances in which they were placed in Crete, it would be desirable if the Government could give orders to the British officers and soldiers in Crete that they should confine their communications with the Turkish troops within those limits demanded of them in the strictest discharge of their duty. He also thought that some assurance should be given that, in following the lead of Germany and Russia, nothing would be done antagonistic to the policy which, as a free nation, this country had always pursued. The House would also like to be assured, while these tremendous sacrifices of the traditions, principles and immediate interests of this country were being made, that Germany, that great Power at whose tail we were being dragged—[loud cheers from the Opposition Benches, and from Mr. DILLON in particular]. There was no one in the House who valued the cheers of hon. Members opposite less than he did. And when he heard the hon. Member for East Mayo agreeing in these views of his he felt shaken in them; for the hon. Member belonged to a Party which expressed the hope that Her Majesty's ships should be sunk, and that Her Majesty's troops should be defeated. [Ministerial cheers.] But what were the convincing reasons which should reconcile the country to the present course? It had been truly said that there were many on the Ministerial side of the House who were truly anxious to be able to support Her Majesty's Government. They really believed that it would be to the advantage of the country if an opportunity could be given to the Government to explain more fully what were their hopes in calling on the country to make these great sacrifices. Because every step of the present policy could only be justified by some overwhelming public advantage. It was an absolute contradiction of the past traditions of both sides of the House in foreign policy. There might be great emergencies in which this policy was inevitable, and if it were crowned with success it would be justified; 1675 but there was no sign of success. He hoped the hon. Member for the Rushcliffe Division would be able to persuade his leaders to give the House this Debate, and he would then deserve the thanks of Members on both sides of the House.
MR. T. M. HEALYsaid that the Irish Members now had a special interest in the British Navy, for, according to the Act of Union Ireland paid about one-fifteenth of all the shells which were flung into Crete. Therefore to that extent he wished to associate himself with the inquiries to Her Majesty's Government. The Leader of the House made an observation which had considerable force from the point of view of Party tactics. The right hon. Gentleman asked the Opposition why they did not move a Vote of Censure. But there might be Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House not willing to take part in a Vote of Censure, who wished to see the best thing done for the people of Crete, without any regard to Party advantage on one side or the other. His point was that those who spoke "On the true faith of a Christian," did not desire to see people believing in Christ and His Virgin Mother massacred as they had been by the abominable Turks. Last year he put questions to the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs relative to the burning of priests in their own churches in Crete, on pyres made of pictures torn from these churches. The First Lord of the Treasury had said that night that the Great Powers—and England foremost among them—were willing to give the Cretans autonomy. He did not know any Greek himself, but he understood one word—"autonomy" [Laughter and "hear, hear!"] But the Cretans understood Greek if he did not, and when they were told they would have autonomy they would understand it. He himself understood it as meaning the withdrawal of Turkish troops from the island. [Cheers.] Then why should the British Government be assisting to maintain the Turkish garrison in their blockhouses—when ex hypothesis the whole of the Turks must be cleared out. When was autonomy to begin—after the insurgents had been humiliated by defeat? He believed that 1676 the policy of the Government, like other articles we consumed in this country, was "made in Germany." [Cheers.] Last year the German Emperor sent his portrait to the Sultan. Although the Government admitted that it was to the German policy they were "tuning up," he believed they were really anxious for the welfare of the Cretans. Yet they allowed the German Emperor, or as Mr. Gladstone, with his splendid courage, called him, "this foolish young man," to dominate the policy that had been pursued in the East. ["Hear, hear!"] He believed the Government were no more in favour of Turkish rule in Crete than he was in favour of English rule in Ireland. He believed they were as much convinced it was a nuisance, as he believed their rule in Ireland to be so. The Government called all this the Concert of the Powers. The only evidence they had of that Concert was the hiss of the shells as they fell in the Christian camp. What a time they were from the battle of Lepanto, when all Europe rejoiced at the defeat of Turkish power! Now English troops were received with the cheers of the Turks, and sent shells into the blockhouses when the Cretans happened to take them. He was only concerned for the lives and liberties of this poor agricultural people, and he said to the Government—make the Turks withdraw first, and then settle whether it was to be autonomy or junction with Greece.
§ MR. ROBERT PIERPOINT (Warrington)protested against the sympathy of the Opposition being limited to the Christian population, while the Mussulmans, who were in the proportion of about one to four of the Christian population, were designated as Turks. There was nothing at all strange that when an English force landed at Canea it should be welcomed by the Turkish, soldiers and the other occupying forces. That was perfectly natural, because the population of Canea was nearly entirely Mussulman. As far as he knew of the island there was nothing whatever, if there could only be a strong Government at the head of affairs, to prevent the Mussulmans and Christians living together in perfect peace and amity. But as long as there was a force of insurgents 1677 in the island, all of them Christian insurgents, who had been committing just as great cruelties on the Mussulmans as ever the Mussulmans of the island had committed on the Christians, it was necessary that there should be some force to prevent the Mussulmans from being treated in the manner in which the insurgents would undoubtedly treat them if they had the power. There was nothing to prevent the two religions of the same race living together in perfect amity. In the Island of Cyprus the population was practically in the same proportion as the Mussulmans to the Christians in Crete, but in Cyprus there was a strong Government, and thus the two religions were enabled to live in perfect peace and amity, and there was no sign of war between the two races. If the country and the House would have patience and wait, they would find that the peace of Europe would be preserved by the Concert of Europe, and that a strong Government would be established in Crete. Surely it was worth while to have patience and to believe that the best was being tried, when the peace of the whole world was endangered for an island with a population only as large as that of one of our moderately large towns.
§ Question put, "That £10,631,218 stand part of the Resolution."
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 163: Noes, 60.£(Division List, No. 152.)
§ Resolution agreed to