HC Deb 11 March 1897 vol 47 cc507-14
MR. DILLON

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether it is a fact that the Greek Vice Consul and all the Greek residents have been ordered to leave Canea; and, if so, for what reason, and under whose authority has this been done?

MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Commander of the detachments landed in Canea from the Allied Fleets notified the Greek Vice Consul that he must leave Crete, and that until his departure he must consider himself a prisoner; whether the British Admiral in Cretan waters concurred in this action; and whether it was taken by the officer commanding the detachments landed as the representative of the Turkish Government and in accordance with Turkish law, international or municipal; and whether an Italian war vessel fired upon the Cretans surrounding Hierapetra?

MR. CURZON

We have received no information from Canea with regard to the incidents concerning the Greek Vice Consul, but have telegraphed for information. An Italian ship, which had been dispatched to the relief of the beleaguered Mussulmans at Hierapetra, was compelled to fire in order to drive back the insurgents and Greek troops who attacked the town on Saturday last.

MR. DILLON

I shall repeat the Question to-morrow. I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he could state to the House who is in command of the mixed force landed at Selino; with what object it was landed; what instructions were given to the officer in command; and by whom were the instructions given?

MR. CURZON

The mixed force was landed at Selino for the purpose of relieving Candano, which is seven miles inland—an operation which was successfully performed. I cannot answer the other questions, which seem to me to be of minor importance.

MR. MACNEILL

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, having regard to the fact that the Ottoman soldiery in Crete rose on the 2nd of March in mutiny and murdered their commanding officer, that the Acting Governor, in reply to the protests of the Consuls on the subject of the pillage of houses in Halepa, a suburb of Canea, by Turkish troops, replied that it could not be helped as the soldiers must pillage to live, it is still the intention of the Powers to insist on the withdrawal of Greek troops from Crete and the retention of Turkish troops in that island?

MR. CURZON

The hon. Member appears to be under some misapprehension. There has been no mutiny of the Ottoman soldiery in Crete but a mutiny of a detachment of Albanian Zaptiehs or police, stationed at Canea. I know nothing of the incident mentioned in the second part of the Question.

MR. MACNEILL

Does the right hon. Gentleman never read the Daily news?

MR. CURZON

No, Sir, I do not. [Laughter.]

SIR ELLIS ASHMEAD-BARTLETT (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Afftairs (1) whether there are now some 30,000 Mussulman refugees, mostly women and children, at Candia, in great distress and threatened with famine; (2) whether the Foreign Consuls at Candia have proof that 400 Mussulmans have been massacred in the Sitia district, and that there are now wounded and mutilated Moslem women and children at Candia; and (3) what steps the Great Powers propose to take in order to restore the Cretan Mussulmans to their homes and land.

MR. CURZON

We have no definite information as to the number of Mussulman refugees at Candia, but Her Majesty's Consul telegraphed on the 5th inst. that there was scarcity of provisions there. He estimated those in want of relief in the island generally at from 25,000 to 30,000 people. The proportion at Candia can only be a very small fraction of that total. I cannot confirm either of the statements in the second paragraph. The restitution of the Mussulmans to their homes must depend upon the restoration of peace and order in the island.

SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what will be done with the Mussulman refugees from Kandamos and other places; and whether any provision can be made for their support until they can return to their homes? I should like to add a question, whether he has any informa- tion that Sir Alfred Biliotti has effected the relief at Candano of Mussulmans after two visits at very great risk to himself?

MR. CURZON

Yes, Sir; that is the information we have received, which I have previously given, and which has appeared fn the Press. I should like to say in that connection that I do not think it would be possible to exaggerate the services which have been rendered by Her Majesty's Consul. There appears to be a consensus of opinion that it was to his personal bravery, and even heroism—for he undoubtedly risked his own life [cheers]—that the success of the operation is due. I hope I am justified in adding the congratulations of this House to those which the Government would desire to offer to Sir Alfred Biliotti for the services he has rendered, not merely to the Government, but to Crete and to the cause of humanity. ["Oh!" and cheers.]

MR. DILLON

On a point of order—["Oh!"] The right hon. Gentleman is entitled to offer his own congratulations, but he is not entitled to offer the congratulations of the Members of this House who entirely disapprove of the whole action. ["Order, order!"]

MR. MACNEILL

And to make a speech about it. [Irish cheers.]

MR. T. M. HEALY

Is this House to be asked to make a grant—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! That does not arise out of the Question.

MR. T. M. HEALY

The Question on the Paper is, whether any provision can be made for the Mussulman refugees from Candano. Is it proposed to ask the House for a grant for that purpose?

MR. SPEAKER

I thought the hon. Member was asking something about the Consul.

MR. T. M. HEALY

No, Sir; it arises out of the question put by the hon. Gentleman opposite. Is there to be a grant by this House in support of the Mussulmans which was refused in the case of the Christians in Armenia? [Cheers.]

MR. CURZON

I do not know what the hon. Member is referring to. I have not yet answered the question of the hon. Gentleman.

SIR E. ASHMEAD- BARTLETT

To put the matter right, I again ask the question.

MR. CURZON

We have not yet heard from the British Admiral or from Her Majesty's Consul on the subject. I shall be glad to communicate any information when we receive it.

MR. T. M. HEALY

Has the British Consul any authority to involve the taxpayers of this country in the cost of relieving these Mussulmans, when we did not relieve the Christians?

[No answer was given.]

SIR W. HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W.)

I desire to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether it is the fact, as stated in the Press, that the Greek Government, in addition to their formal reply to the Note of the Powers, have made a communication to Her Majesty's Government and the other Powers to the effect that Greece is prepared to recognise the temporary suzerainty of the Sultan, to withdraw their fleet from Crete, and place the Greek forces in that island under the control of the Powers for the restoration of order, stipulating that the Powers will ultimately leave to the Cretan people the decision of the question of autonomy or annexation to Greece, and whether such statement is in substance correct? ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. CURZON

When I answered the right hon. Gentleman's question yesterday afternoon at 5.30 no further communication or Note had been received from the Greek Government. About half an hour later such a Communication was made verbally at the Foreign Office by the Creek Chargé d'Affaires. It will be laid with the other Papers, but I am afraid that it will possibly delay their appearance till to-morrow. They would otherwise have been in the hands of hon. Members this afternoon. I may add that the nature of the communication is not quite accurately described in the Question of the right hon. Gentleman. ["Hear, hear!"]

SIR W. HARCOURT

I venture to urge on the right hon. Gentleman that it is of great importance that the attitude of Greece on this matter should be known. [Cheers.] Therefore, although there may be some small inaccuracies or divergences from the statement I have received, I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to state whether or not in substance these proposals on the part of the Greek Government are as I have stated? ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. CURZON

It is rather difficult to say exactly what "in substance" means; but I may perhaps put it in this way—that there are substantial inaccuracies in the statement. [Cries of "What are they?"] We should have been very glad to have laid the Creek communication before the House this evening if we could, but, of course, permission had to be asked from the Greek Chargé d' Affaires himself. A messenger was sent to his office with the object of securing that assent, but up to 8 o'clock he had not been found. That is the explanation of the delay. ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. DILLON

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether his attention has been directed to the message which the British Admiral desired The Times Correspondent to telegraph to this country to the effect that the insurgents had never received the warning of the Admirals before the recent bombardment? ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. R. PIERPOINT (Warrington)

I also desire to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is a fact, as stated in this morning's papers, that Rear Admiral Harris has ascertained from the insurgent chiefs at Akrotiri that the proclamation of the Powers forbidding the insurgents to attack Canea and the other towns, and the Admirals' offer to send doctors after the bombardment, had never been communicated to the insurgents, although the Greek Commodore Reineck had been intrusted by the Admiral with the two Notes, and had been requested to communicate them to the chiefs; and whether the English, French, and Italian Admirals were all convinced that the Notes had not been transmitted by Commodore Reineck? ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. CURZON

Yes, Sir, I have seen the statement in The times this morning, the substance of which is borne out by a telegram we have since received from the British Admiral this morning, to the effect that, in company with the French and Italian Admirals, he had landed at Akrotiri to interview the insurgent chiefs, and that the latter had denied having received the warning sent through the Greek Commodore, and also denied knowledge of the offer of medical assistance which had been On three occasions tendered by the representatives of the Powers. ["Hear!"]

MR. T. M. HEALY

Is it not the fact that these statements were made after the Greek Admiral had left the shores of Crete? ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. CURZON

Yes, because it was not until yesterday that the Admirals had the interview with the insurgent chiefs. ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. T. M. HEALY

The Greek Admiral was away all the same. [Cries of "Order!"]

MR. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis)

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the Greek Commodore had undertaken the transmission of this message?

MR. CURZON

I cannot say.

MR. DILLON

I presume the right hon. Gentleman will see that in future, at least, there is absolute certainty that the insurgents are Warned before fire is opened upon them.

[No answer was given.]

MR. F. S. STEVENSON (Suffolk, Eye)

Arising out of the Question of the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition, will the right hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs answer that part of the Question which referred to the Turkish suzerainty?

MR. CURZON

I think it would be unsafe for me to answer from memory. I have not a copy of the communication which the Greek Chargé d' Affaires made with me. It was sent off at once to the printers.

SIR W. HARCOURT

I gave the right hon. Gentleman early notice of this question—as early as 12 o'clock to-day. I am sorry to press him, but I regard it as a matter of vital importance that it should be known to Europe what are the conditions and the terms which Greece has proposed. [Cheers.]

MR. J. H. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)

I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, in view of the importance of this matter, the right hon. Gentleman will hold out any hope that the Greek Minister, who is known to be in close proximity to the House, will be found, and that he will be able to give us all answer on the adjournment of the House to-night? ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. CURZON

I really do not know that there is any very considerable difference, as far as hon. Members are concerned, between 12 o'clock to-night and the first thing to-morrow morning. [Cheers and laughter, and Opposition cries of "Oh!"]

SIR W. HARCOURT

But if given here to-night the information will be in the Press and given to the world to-morrow, while if it is kept back until 4 o'clock to-morrow it will be a very different thing indeed. ["Hear, hear!"] The mere fact that it has been sent to the printers does not prevent the right hon. Gentleman from getting the document back from them. [Cheers.]

MR. CURZON

There will not be the slightest objection to giving it if I am informed before midnight that the consent of the Greek Chargé d' Affaires has taken obtained. ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. STEVENSON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a few hours ago, when he was sending messengers to seek for the Greek Chargé d' Affaires, that Gentleman was in the Lobby of this House in search of the right hon. Gentleman? [Laughter.]

MR. PIERPOINT

Why did not the hon. Member tell the right hon. Gentleman?

MR. CURZON

I was not aware of the fact.