§ MR. JOHN DILLONwho had on the Paper a Notice to call attention, on going into Committee on the Civil Service Estimates, to the policy of the Government in relation to the insurrection in Crete, and move a Resolution, said: Mr. Speaker, I desire to withdraw the Notice of Motion which stands on the Paper in my name. [Ministerial cries of "No" and laughter.]
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W.)It was my intention to move the Adjournment of the House this afternoon upon the statement made by the Government on Thursday last as to their policy, but it has come to my knowledge since I entered the House that there are technical difficulties in the way of my proceeding. But I gave notice of that intention to the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House on Saturday, and I have reason to believe that, so far from objecting to that course, he thinks it desirable that it should be taken. I would, therefore, appeal to the right hon. Gentleman whether I am correct in that view of the case, and whether, if so, the difficulties which have been stated can be removed, so that the question may be raised, and the explanation we desire, and which I understand the Government are also desirous of mailing, may be made To-morrow.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYAs the House will remember, a statement was made by me on Thursday last with regard to the policy of the Government in relation to the present position of affairs in Crete. It would have been in the power of the right hon. Gentleman opposite on Thursday to have moved the Adjournment of the House in order to discuss that statement, and such a course would have been strictly in acordance with the practice of the House. The right hon. Gentleman, however, quite rightly, in my judgment, thought it would be for the general advantage that the discussion should be deferred, and publicly across the floor of this House I said, on the part of the Government, that I was prepared to discuss with him what day would be most convenient for the discussion which I recognised as legitimate. The right hon. Gentleman appealed to me on Saturday that the day that he fixed should be to-day. I did not think it my business to raise any objection, and it was not until I came down to the House that I learned, as the right hon. Gentleman has learned, that there is a technical difficulty in carrying out that object. If, however, the hon. Member for East Mayo carries out his intention of withdrawing his Notice of Motion which he has on the Paper, there will be no objection to raising this Debate tomorrow, and I would suggest that that would probably be the most convenient 1349 course. I trust—at any rate, so far as I am concerned, I shall use such influence as I possess in that direction—that no technical difficulty will again arise tomorrow of the nature we have had to-day. I trust that that statement will be not only in accordance with the technical and strict rules of procedure which govern us in this House, but that it will also meet with the general approval of both sides as the best way out of the difficulty. [Cheers.]
MR. JAMES LOWTHER (Kent, Thanet)May I ask my right hon. Friend whether it would not be the more convenient course that the House should modify the Standing Order which applies to cases of this kind? ["Hear, hear!"] Because I would remind my right hon. Friend that I for one have a perfect right, if I think fit, to put down a Notice on all fours with the Notice of the hon. Member for Mayo, which would land the House in the same fix as to-day. [Laughter.] Therefore, I venture to ask whether it would not be desirable that some modification of this Rule should be adopted, whereby, if in the opinion of the Chair, any question arises which he considers of sufficient urgency, it might be brought forward notwithstanding the interposition of any Motion of the kind referred to. ["Hear, hear!"] If my right hon. Friend likes I will repeat that question tomorrow.
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYI have no difficulty whatever in giving my right hon. Friend, at all events, a provisional answer to that question. I do not think that the present system of dealing with questions of urgency is a very satisfactory one, and undoubtedly there is a certain inconsistency in leaving the House bound and helpless before the will of one single and irresponsible individual—["hear, hear!" and, laughter]—as might happen under our existing Rules. ["Hear, hear!"] But I would point out to my right hon. Friend that it would take a considerable time probably to frame a satisfactory substitute for our existing Rule, and, in the meanwhile, we have not in practice found that much difficulty arises, for the good sense of Members on both sides of the House has hitherto in my experience always prevented any such impasse, or such insuperable difficulty as in theory undoubtedly 1350 might arise at present, although in practice it has not arisen.
MR. JAMES LOWTHERI am afraid I cannot associate myself with my right hon. Friend's experience as to no inconvenience having occurred in the past. [Laughter.] I have known cases of considerable importance—
§ *MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! There is no question before the House. ["Hear, hear!"]
MR. JAMES LOWTHERI will, then, ask a question. [Laughter.] Do I understand that my right hon. Friend will take steps with a view to the modification of the Rule, because, if not, I must consider whether another object-lesson should nor be forthcoming. [Laughter.]
§ MR. DILLONOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I would ask whether I am not within my right in withdrawing the Motion now: and whether the object of the Rule is not to prevent a Motion standing in the name of an hon. Member being anticipated by a Motion for the adjournment of the House. If an hon. Member withdraws his Motion, does it not cease to operate? ["Hear, hear!"]
§ *MR. SPEAKERThe ordinary Rule of the House is, that, when a Motion such as that of the hon. Member has been put on the Paper, it operates, so far as the question of anticipation goes, until it ceases to appear on the Paper. The hon. Gentleman's statement that he intends to withdraw has not, under the existing procedure of the House, any effect.
§ SIR HENRY FOWLER (Wolverhampton)On a question of order, Mr. Speaker, may I ask whether there is any Standing Order of the House that lays down this rule, or whether it is not the practice that has grown up without any sanction from the House? [Cheers.]
§ MR. SPEAKERI think there is the Standing Orders. [Opposition cheers.] It is a practice of the House which has been acted upon, and the practice of the House, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, when acted upon for years, is as binding upon the House as a Standing Order. [Ministerial cheers.]
§ MR. DILLONMay I ask whether, if it is only a practice of the House and not a Standing Order, it must depend on precedent and ruling, and has any ruling on the subject been given from the Chair? [Cries of "Order!"]
§ SIR W. HARCOURTMay I ask, with reference to what my right hon. Friend the Member for Thanet has said, whether you, Sir, will take into consideration that this really seems to be a rule which has grown up without the authority of a Standing Order, and how far it had better be modified? I think everyone must feel that, if any such rule were acted upon rigorously, it would reduce the House to impotency, and the great affairs of the nation would have to be transacted elsewhere. [Cheers.]
§ *MR. SPEAKEROf course, it is obvious that there are occasions when the practice would operate inconveniently. It is not for me to say whether, on the whole, it operates inconveniently or not. Certainly, if the House thinks fit to alter the rule, I shall not offer any advice to the contrary. ["Hear, hear!"]
§ SIR W. HARCOURTBut, as there is no rule, what course can the House take in the matter? As I understand, the House has never made a rule to this effect. It is simply, as I understand, an accidental judgment, and there is no rule on which the House can act.
§ *MR. SPEAKERI think there is more than that. The right hon. Gentleman will find that there is such a consensus of practice upon the point for many years past that it is one of the ordinary Rules of the House, and part of the ordinary procedure of the House. The right hon. Gentleman well knows that many of our rules are not to be found in print or in Standing Orders; and this is a practice which has become part of what I may call the common law of Parliament. To alter a long-continued practice at common law requires a statute; and in the same way an alteration in the common law of Parliament cannot be effected on the sole authority of the Speaker, who is not the maker, but only the administrator, of the laws of this House. [Cheers.]
MR. JAMES LOWTHERWhat course can the House adopt? Would it be by way of Resolution to move a modification, or by Standing Order?
§ *MR. SPEAKERWhere you want to alter the practice of the House it would be more convenient to do so by Standing Order. At the same time the House has sometimes acted upon Resolutions. It is a matter for consideration what course should be followed.
MR. JAMES LOWTHERAs far as I am personally concerned, having regard to the assurance that the matter shall receive consideration, I shall not take action in the direction of an object-lesson. [Laughter and cheers.]