HC Deb 29 June 1897 vol 50 cc803-6

(1). The Secretary for Scotland may appoint as Secretary to the Commissioners one of the senior officers in the department of the Secretary for Scotland, or in any Government department in Scotland, and, with the consent of the Treasury, may assign to him an additional salary. The Secretary for Scotland may also, with the consent of the Treasury, direct any of the officers in any Government department in Scotland to discharge in relation to the Commissioners such duties, not inconsistent with those of their permanent offices, as he may think proper.

(2). The salaries or remuneration of the officers (if any) employed by the Commissioners, and the adminstrative expenses of the Commissioners, shall be fixed by the Treasury and paid out of the sums by this Act placed at the disposal of the Commissioners.

MR. CALDWELL moved in Sub-section (1) to omit the words "and, with the consent of the Treasury, may assign to him an additional salary." He said there was strong objection to handing over new duties with additional salary to officers already in Government Service. He thought it was hardly reasonable to give additional duties and salaries to men who had already sufficient salaries, and presumably had sufficient duties to do. He would rather have a permanent secretary appointed with a permanent salary, who would devote his whole time to the matter. The principle of the present proposal was wrong, and he, therefore, begged to move his Amendment.

*MR WEIR

supported the Amendment, and urged that when an official visited the charming scenery of the Highlands, he ought not to receive additional salary, as he got enjoyment and benefit to his health.

*THE LORD ADVOCATE

asked hon. Members to remember that this was not a Congested Districts Board, but a Congested Districts Commission, which would be connected with the Local Government Board and with the Department of the Secretary for Scotland. It was for that reason that they proposed to take the secretary from one or other of those offices, and it was the ordinary practice to give a moderate increase of salary to an official when he suddenly had fresh duties laid upon him.

MR. CALDWELL

said the secretary's duties would be of a very clerical kind, and there was an obvious advantage in having a secretary who would devote his whole time to them. He must, therefore press his Amendment.

MR. McLEOD

pointed out that the Departments were supposed to get at present the whole of the services of their officials, and if an official of the Secretary for Scotland's office were to perform these duties, he could not at the same time be performing other duties in the Secretary for Scotland's office. Therefore, there was no need for this increment of salary. The result of the present proposal would be that the office would be a mere annexe to the office of the Secretary for Scotland, which would accommodate the permanent officials. In these circumstances he agreed with his hon. Friend that, when the State was supposed to be in possession of the full services of this official, he was not entitled to any further remuneration when he was being employed in other duties.

MR. DALZIEL

said that so far as he understood the proposal of the Government, it was to take power to give the Secretary for Scotland the right to add an additional salary to the permanent official who would discharge the duties of secretary of this Commission. He was surprised that it was necessary in a Bill of this kind to ask for any such power. It seemed to him quite possible for the Government to appoint a secretary and then to make their appeal in the ordinary course to the Treasury. This proposal meant that the Government were desirous of creating what they had almost pledged themselves not to do, namely, more pluralists in the public service. They ought to oppose the creation of more pluralists in the public service, and he would ask the Lord Advocate whether he did not think a Board of this kind was important enough to justify the small additional expenditure which would be necessary in order that he might give the whole of his services to the work of the Commission. There would be an immense amount of secretarial work attached to the Commission and it seemed to him that the extra hundred or two that would be necessary to secure his whole time would be money well spent. He would suggest to the Lord Advocate that he should give them a promise to consider the question before Report and see whether such a suggestion could not be arranged.

*THE LORD ADVOCATE

said he should be perfectly happy to consider the matter before Report in the light of the discussion which had taken place.

MR. JOHN DILLON (Mayo, E.)

pointed out that the Irish Board had a secretary at £1,000 a year who devoted the whole of his time to the work.

MR. CALDWELL

said he would withdraw the Amendment on the understanding that the Lord Advocate would give the matter not merely his philosophical, but his favourable consideration.

*THE LORD ADVOCATE

reminded the hon. Member that there were others to be consulted beside himself, but he would give his best consideration to the subject.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. CALDWELL moved in Subsection (2), to leave out "disposal of the Commissioners," and to insert the words "to be annually voted by Parliament." He pointed out that if the salaries were paid out of the £15,000, which were allocated by Act of Parliament, it would exclude all review by that House of the salaries, expenses, and administration of these Commissioners. The object of Fns Amendment was to make it clear that the salaries and expenses were to be paid out of the £20,000 to be annually voted by Parliament, so that that House would have complete control over the action of the Commissioners.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of Bill.

Clause 3,—