CONGESTED DISTRICTS (SCOTLAND) [GRANTS]. (Hansard, 17 June 1897)

§ THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. GRAHAM MURRAY,) Buteshire
said by the Act of last year,£15,000 per annum was consecrated for that purpose. But it was felt that £I5,000 was hardly sufficient to conduct the necessary experiments on a scale sufficiently large to have a chance of success, and the Resolution now reported embodied the determination of the Treasury to give an additional sum of £20,000 a year. In framing a Bill to carry out the scheme three points obviously had to be determined—the constitution of the body to administer the money, the area over which it should be administered, and the objects on which the money should be spent. A congested district board might have been created, as in Ireland; but there was a well-founded objection to the multiplication of boards. ["Hear, hear!"] Then it was suggested that the Crofters Commission should be utilised. But that Commission was constituted as a quasi judicial body rather than as an administrative body, and, over and above all, it was not directly subject to the administrative control of any Government Department. Accordingly, the idea of utilising the Crofters Commission was abandoned. They had ready to their hands the admirable machinery of the local government. There were, however, objections to putting the money strictly under the Local Government Board as such, and, in particular, it seemed a pity that they should not avail themselves of the admirable experience gained by the Crofters Commission. According to the plan which was worked out in the Bill a Commission would be 355 created which would really be a sort of sub-department of the Local Government Board. He could best explain it by reading the clause which dealt with its constitution, which was as follows:— For the purpose of administering the sums available for the improvement of the congested districts"…. and so on, the following persons shall be Commissioners, called the Congested Districts (Scotland) Commissioners—that is to say, the Secretary for Scotland, the Under Secretary for Scotland, the Chairman of the Local Government Board of Scotland, the Chairman of the Fishery Board of Scotland, the Chairman of the Crofters Commission, and such other persons, not exceeding two, as the Secretary for Scotland may from time to time nominate. They hoped that by making this selection they had taken the best practical experience which Scotland could at this moment provide, and at the same time they had got a body which would be directly amenable to Parliamentary control. As to the area, it was quite obvious that the districts which wished to be benefited were pretty much the same as the crofting districts; but, on the other hand, there were, of course, some of the crofting districts which were not in any sense of the word congested districts. They had thought it better not to have the absolutely rigid scale provided in the Irish Act, and accordingly the definition of a congested district contained in the Bill was:— The expression 'congested district' means any crofting parish or crofting parishes, or any area in a crofting parish, or crofting parishes defined by the Commissioners under this Act, which they shall, having regard to the population and valuation thereof, determine to be a congested district. As regarded the objects for which the money was to be used they had more or less followed the precedent of the Irish Act. The objects included the aiding and developing of agriculture and of the breeding of live stock and poultry in congested districts; the provision of suitable seed potatoes and seed oats for crofters 356 and cottars; the provision of land for sub-division among crofters and cottars for cultivation or grazing; the aiding of the migration of crofters and cottars to other districts and their settlement there; the aiding and developing of fishing and the promotion of industries subservient to the fishing industry; the improvement of public roads and footpaths; the aiding and developing of the spinning, weaving, and other home industries; and the provision and improvement of harbours. He hoped lie had clearly explained the scope of the Bill. It was, of course, an experiment, but they hoped when the Bill came to be scrutinised it would be seen that it embodied sufficiently generous proposals to allow of the experiment being conducted on an adequate scale, that it would provide sufficient safeguards for the money being properly spent, and that it would result in the improvement of the prosperity of the Highlands. [Cheers.]

§ DR. CLARK (Caithness)
congratulated the right hon. Gentleman and the Government upon their proposals. He thought that the composition of the Commission would probably require modification, as most of the Gentlemen who had been mentioned were very busy men who would not have much time to spare. On the whole, the explanation of the scheme given by the right hon. Gentleman was fair, free, frank, and full, and he thanked him and the Government for this attempt to solve the problem of the congested districts of Scotland, where tine people were huddled together under conditions not at all creditable to the country. The people could not remain in those districts. They must either emigrate or migrate. Emigration had been tried and had entirely failed. He hoped this scheme of migration would prove a complete success.

§ MR THOMAS HEDDERWICK (Wick Burghs)
asked whether the salaries of the Commissioners were to come out of the £20,000.

§ *MR. J. G. WEIR (Ross and Cromarty)
joined with his hon. Friend the Member for Caithness in congratulating the Government on this attempt to do something for the Highlands of Scotland. The 357 scheme would certainly relieve sonic of the existing distress, but it would not solve the question of the Highlands. A good deal would depend upon the Commissioners. He sincerely hoped they would not be ornamental, but that useful and practical men, having a thorough knowledge of the needs and requirements of the Highlands, would be appointed.

§ DR. FARQUHARSON (Aberdeenshire, W.)
said that, although he did not represent what was popularly called a crofters' district, he joined in the congratulations of the Government on introducing this Bill. The Crofters Act was a great success, except that it did not realise the desire of the crofters for inure land; but he thought the Bill would supply that defect and thereby contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Highlands.

§ Mr. CALDWELL
asked Ore Chancellor of the Exchequer whether they were to understand that the money was to come out of the Imperial purse, pure and simple, or out of what was technically termed Scotch money. He agreed with the Lord Advocate that the policy was to help out of the Imperial purse those districts of the country which required assistance, but unfortunately they knew what had happened in the case of the £15,000 already granted. That sum was really taken out of what was purely Scotch money. Was it intended to take the present £20,000 out of Scotch money? [The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: "No!"] That being the case, the Scotch people could have no objection to the proposal. He was not sure, however, that the Bill would properly grapple with congestion in Scotland. The real difficulty was that the crofting holdings were so small that even if no rent at all were required, it was 'not possible for any one to get a living out of them.

§ Mr. PARKER SMITH (Lanark, Partick)
thought it right to express the opinion that Scotch Members sitting on Government Benches were just as gratified as hon. Members opposite at 358 the prospect of the Bill the Lord Advocate had described. They had felt rather strongly the somewhat rough and inconsiderate reduction of the Vote respecting harbours and public works in Scotland, hut this grant would to some extent cover the ground.

§ THE LORD ADVOCATE
said as regarded the money, there was no doubt that £20,000 would cone out of the Imperial Treasury. As to the other matters raised by the lion. Member, they could be left to t he future. As to the salaries of the Board as already constituted, they had salaries, and as to the others the charge would be, of course, met by money provided out of the Bill. That was obviously a small matter. The two nominated members would be unpaid. Their local knowledge would be calculated to give assistance. As to the compulsory acquisition of land, in the present condition of the land market they did not think there would be any difficulty in getting land if that land was properly paid for.
Resolution agreed to.—Bill ordered to be brought in by the Lord Advocate and Mr. Anstruther.