HC Deb 22 February 1897 vol 46 cc890-931

who was received with Opposition cheers, said: I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House on a matter of urgent public importance—namely, the firing on Greek forces in Crete by Her Majesty's ships. [Cheers.]


There has been no firing on Creek forces. [Cheers and Opposition cries of "On Cretan forces!"]


having read the Motion,


On a point of Order, Sir, may I ask whether, as the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs has stated there has been no firing on Greek forces—[Opposition cries of "Cretan forces!" and an HON. MEMBER: "The House will decide that!"]—this Motion is in Order?


On a point of Order also, Mr. Speaker, I contend that the forces on whom the international ships fired were Greek forces. [Cheers.] The Cretans are Greeks, from my point of view; but I will change the word if you like.


The Motion can be changed, no doubt, by using the words, "Cretan insurgents," or whatever the fact is—I do not know myself—but I do not think it is necessary to make the change as Cretans are, in one sense, Greek. [Cheers.] Is the hon. Gentleman supported by 40 Members?

The whole of the Members on the Opposition side of the House, including the occupants of the Front Bench, having risen in their places amid loud cheers,


who was again greeted with cheers, moved "That this House do now adjourn." The hon. Member said that a few days ago the adjournment of the House was moved in order to call attention to what was going on in Crete, in regard to which many of them entertained the most profound distrust. [Cheers.] On that occasion they were told that no reply would be given to them. The Leader of the House told them that they must take very great care even when they merely asked for information from the Government, as the slightest mistake might lead to a great war in Europe. [Ministerial cheers.] He did not believe in this bugbear of a great European war. [Cheers.] They had information in the public newspapers that morning, which had been confirmed by the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, that the international fleet, with British ships in the front—[cheers]—had fired upon Greek forces—as he contended they were—but in any case they were Cretans fighting for their independence. [Cheers.] What was the explanation given to the House? Her Majesty's Government declared that the international forces had taken possession of three towns in Crete, and they protested that they only fired when they found that the Cretans would not recognise this occupation and tried to take those towns. But he would point out that the whole of Crete, with the exception of those three towns, was in the hands of the Cretans. [Cheers.] In those towns there were Turkish garrisons, and those garrisons, according to the newspapers, had frequently issued from the towns, waged war upon the insurgents, and had then fallen back on the towns. Was it surprising that the Cretans should wish to put an end to all this? [Cheers.] Upon what possible ground had the Government interfered by landing soldiers and marines to hold those towns, except for the benefit of Turkey? [Cheers.] Those towns would have been taken by the insurgents had not the Great Powers interfered, and now, not content with holding those towns, the English fleet had, to the horror of the English people, fired upon the insurgents and driven them back. It was time for the Liberal Party to speak out on this matter. [Loud cheers.] They were told that they were not to make this question of foreign affairs a Party question. [Ministerial cheers.] They made it a national question. [Cheers.] They believed that the people of England were determined that we ought not to interfere in any sort of way diplomatically, and still less by force of arms, in favour of the Turks in any part of the Turkish Empire, and yet that was what we were doing at the present moment. [Cheers.] He moved the adjournment of the House in order to give the Government the opportunity of explaining what was going on in Crete. But, so far as he was concerned, it was enough for him that the atrocious wickedness had been committed; and he would carry his Motion to a Division in order that, although they might be in a minority in the House, the country should clearly understand they should do their utmost to prevent any further action being taken on behalf of that miserable creature, that foul blot upon civilisation, the Sultan of Turkey. [Loud cheers.]


Order, order! I must remind the hon. Gentleman that he is speaking of a friendly Sovereign; and it is one of the rules of the House to speak of a friendly Sovereign with the same decency of language as would be employed in speaking of a Member of this House or of the other House. [Ministerial cheers.]


I beg pardon, Mr. Speaker. I am aware of that rule, but I was carried away by the thought of the statements which have been made by Mr. Gladstone and other eminent Liberals in regard to the Sultan. [Laughter and cheers, and Ministerial cries of"Oh!"] I beg to move my Motion.


in seconding the Motion, said that when the question of Crete was raised a few days ago, on a Motion for the Adjournment of of the House, appeals were made by the Government to the House not to disturb the Concert of Europe, and to observe that reticence which foreign affairs deserved. In his humble judgment the House had been too silent on this question—[cheers]—and as a consequence they had this outrage—for it was regarded as an outrage by the great majority of the people of the kingdom—of the guns of her Majesty's fleet having been turned on men who, after centuries of oppression, were risking their lives in defence of everything a civilised people held dear, and were gallantly driving their oppressors, the Turks, before them. [Cheers.] For months they had been gulled by declarations as to the necessity of maintaining the Concert of Europe. But what had the Concert of Europe done—what had the mighty engines of the Great Powers which lay around the coast of Crete done to protect one man, woman, or child in Crete until their hands had been forced by the gallant Creek nation? [Cheers.] And were it not for the action of the Creeks, the fleets of the European Powers might still be hanging round the coast of Crete consulting and negotiating until the whole population of the island was murdered. [Cheers.] What was the situation in Crete? The House was told that the Powers of Europe had undertaken at the eleventh hour to maintain peace and order, and to protect the inhabitants of Crete; and in the same breath they were told that it was impossible for the Powers to communicate with the interior of the island. The fact was that the Powers of Europe would not solve this question or allow the Greeks to solve it. [Cheers.] He charged against the Government—no matter what evasive answers might be given in the House—that at the present moment the forces of England were ranged on the side of the Turks. [Cheers.] He was not surprised that the Speaker had intervened to protect the Sultan as a friendly Sovereign. Until to-day, when they read the disgraceful news in the papers, the people and the House of Commons were under the impression that the Government did not desire the Sultan to be considered as a friend of this country. [Cheers.] He was not only a friend, he was an ally. [Cheers.] The House was told that Turkish authority prevailed in Canea under the protection of the marines of the six Powers. Therefore at present the British forces were the allies of the Turks and the enemies of Greece and the Cretan people. The answer of the Under Secretary had been carefully worded to minimise the details of this bombardment; but would the Government contradict the details given by the Daily News correspondent at Canea?— At 4.30 this afternoon signals were made to the Dryad, Harrier, and Revenge, and also to one Italian, one German, and one Russian ship to open fire on the Cretan position. Who was the dictator or commander-in-chief to set Her Majesty's ships in motion in this way? [Cheers.] This was done. The British ships fired some 40 shells, making with the others about 70 in all, at the village and round house which were held by the Cretans. The flag was soon hauled down. Cease fire was sounded after ten. minutes. Thereupon the flag was again hoisted. The rocks round the position were crowded with Cretans. The Turks, encouraged by the fleet, now opened a lively fusilade, while the Cretans were carrying off their wounded. The British would fire on the Cretan insurgents, but they would not silence the Turkish batteries. [Cheers.] This account ought to be contradicted by some member of the Government, or an apology ought to be made to the House. The Government had made a mockery of the House by the replies which had been given to questions. [Cheers.] It had long been asserted that everything was being done for peace and order in Crete, and the other day the Under Secretary stated that the late Vali had been appointed in accordance with the arrangement with the Powers, that no attempt had been made to interfere with his authority, and that Turkey had loyally carried out the agreement with the Powers. Now the Vali himself stated that from the moment he landed in Crete he never had any authority, and that messengers were sent from Constantinople warning the Turkish troops to take no orders from him and give him no support. It was an uncontested fact that the whole arrangement was a fraud and an imposture from the beginning. [Cheers.] The reply given to him to-day was most unsatisfactory. He asked whether it was true that during the burning of Canea some three weeks ago five Christians had been put into an oven and baked alive?


I must remind the hon. Member that last week there was a discussion on the general policy of the Government in the matter of Crete, and it is a rule of the House that the same question cannot be twice debated in the same Session on a Motion for adjournment. The present Motion refers to the firing on Greek forces by British war vessels at Canea, and to that point the hon. Member must confine himself.


said his argument was that the Powers had shown themselves ineffective in protecting the life and property in Crete, that the Greeks were the right people to undertake the task, and that the Powers had no right to prevent the Greeks from restoring order. He should like to know whether that would be in order?


I cannot give a general direction to the hon. Member beforehand; but the question whether five people were baked in an oven is not relevant to the matter before the House. I must call the hon. Gentleman's attention to the words of the Motion, which relate to the firing on the Greek forces by Her Majesty's ships, and I trust he will confine himself to what bears upon that question.


said that he had received information which made him gravely doubt the answer given by the Under Secretary, and he hoped further inquiries would be made. He wished to know what was the international position as between the British forces and the Greek forces in Crete? Was England at war with Greece? [Cheers.] If not, what right had England to turn her ships' guns on the Greek forces? [Cheers.] Either England was at war with Greece or was acting as the policeman of the Sultan. Was she lending her forces to do the dirty—the infernal—work of the Sultan? [Cheers.] High and mighty politicians had delivered lectures on international obligations; and Greece had been taken to task by The Times and other authorities for breaches of those obligations. What, then, was the international position of England? [Cheers.] There were times and occasions where the motive and the cause justified breaches of the law, whether national or international. If Greece had acted wrongly, from the narrow standpoint of international law, she had done it under great provocation and in a good cause. [Cheers.] He had lately seen a letter from a lady in Athens wondering at the action of the British Government, and saying that if we had seen in the streets of our towns women and children refugees with noses and ears cut off, our blood would boil. [Cheers.] Greece had violated international law, if at all, in the cause of human freedom, and the generous sentiment of all mankind approved her. [Cheers]. England had equally violated international law; but it was done to maintain tyranny and to outrage the sentiment of the whole civilised world. [Cheers.]


The House will learn without surprise that I do not mean to imitate the violence of language—[cheers, cries of "Oh!" and "What about the guns?"]—which has characterised the Mover and Seconder of the Motion we are now discussing. I speak with too great a sense of the responsibility which devolves upon the Government and of the difficulties and dangers impending over Europe as a whole to allow, as far as I am concerned and as far as I can help it, this Debate to degenerate into a controversy between the two sides of the House. ["Hear, hear!"] The hon. Member who opened the Debate, followed in this as in other matters by the Seconder, poured great contempt upon the very suggestion that the present condition of Europe was one which might well involve anxious considerations for all who care for the cause of peace—that if, either through error or misfortune, a spark really falls into the combustible material too widely spread, we may be on the verge of some great European catastrophe. [Cheers.] Those who deride such fears as illusory are surely blind themselves to facts of contemporaneous history. There have been in the history of Europe many periods when Europe was anxiously watching the ambitions of one great Power or another, not knowing whether such Power was not going for its own selfish purposes to precipitate warlike operations. Sir, there is absolute unanimity, there is an absolutely unanimous desire among every one of the Great Powers to avoid anything in the nature of war. [Cheers.] No ambition, no personal ambition, interferes or is likely to interfere with that desire. And yet when we find that the masters of these colossal armies are themselves moved with the deepest anxiety lest war should be declared, lest those embattled hosts should really be thrust one upon the other with results which nobody can contemplate without horror, surely it is not even for great international authorities like the hon. Gentleman who has just sat down—[Cheers and laughter, and, counter cheers and cries of "No!"]


I did not pose as such. [Cheers.]


Or the hon. Member for Northampton, who preceded him, to say that such fears are illusory, the creations of a disturbed brain. [Cheers.]


I said nothing about international authorities. I said what ninetenths of the people of this country feel. [Cheers.]


I hope that if the hon. Gentleman does me the honour to interrupt me again his interruption will be more relevant. I say that these fears to which I have given expression in this House, and which are entertained by every responsible Statesman in the North, in the South, in the East, in the West of Europe, are surely not to be brushed aside because the hon. Member for Northampton and the hon. Member for Mayo tell us they are illusory. [Cheers.] We are not concerned merely with the peace of Europe, although that is a consideration the gravity of which I should have thought could not have been exaggerated; we are also concerned, and I for one admit it, with the peace of Crete and with the future government of that island. The hon. Gentleman appears to hold the view that the action of the Greeks has been entirely in the direction—I am speaking now of the present condition of the island—of saving life and property, and that the action of the Powers has been wholly impotent to secure either of those great ends. Sir, there has been a sacrifice, a deplorable sacrifice, both of life and property in Crete, and I think if the hon. Gentleman will carefully and impartially consider I who is most responsible for that loss and who has done most to obviate it, he will certainly not say that the international forces have been idle or ineffective, or that the actions of the Greek forces have been marked by success in these directions. [Cheers.] Let us always remember in dealing with this question of Crete that the population of Crete, although it may be a homogeneous population in point of race—I think it is so in race—is not homogeneous in point of religion, and that we have not merely to deal with a large number of those who are Christian by religion, but we have also to deal with a large minority who are Mahomedan by religion. Those who desire good government and security for life and property are bound to regard not less the security of Mahomedan life and property than that of Christian life and policy. Both are and both ought to be sacred to this House, and we ought to do all that we can, not only for one party alone, but for both. [Cheers.] Let me ask in the second place whether we are seriously to understand that this House is of opinion that when a town has been occupied by forces representative of the Great Powers, when the Great Powers have made themselves responsible for the peace and good order of such town, and when the town and the people are menaced by the operations of insurgents outside the. walls, the Great Powers are to fold their arms and withdraw their ships. [Cheers.] Is that a policy which is seriously pressed upon the Government from any quarter of the House? Whatever our view may be of the proper future for Crete and of the action of the Greek Government, at all events these elementary propositions will be agreed to by both sides of the House—namely, that when the Great Powers have occupied and made themselves responsible for peace and security they ought not to tolerate from any outside force interference with the prerogative which they have taken on themselves. [Cheers.] I may say, in passing, that we have no information in any sense confirming the narrative the hon. Gentleman has given us of those transactions. I know nothing of the source from whence he derives his information.


From the Special Correspondent of the Daily News. [Cheers, and ironical cheers and laughter.]


I have nothing to say against that gentleman, whose name I know nothing about. But I may say to the House that there is no information in the possession of Her Majesty's Government, and, therefore, there can be no information given to the House, which in any sense confirms what has fallen from the hon. Gentleman.


Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether the Government have received any information on the subject?


No, we have no details. Having now briefly dealt with these two points of the European, situation in the first place, imperilled, as we think, by these transactions, and of the condition of Crete and the action of the Great Powers resisting aggression upon towns under their immediate protection, I come now to what is, I believe, after all, at the bottom of the strong sentiments which I doubt not most genuinely animate hon. Gentlemen opposite—namely, the future condition of the island. Upon this subject the House will not think that I desire to keep anything from them when I say that we feel ourselves absolutely bound by the present conditions of international communications to speak with the utmost reserve upon this point. As I understand the matter, hon. Members opposite argue in this way. They say:— Here are the Great Powers engaged in exacting from Turkey and trying to introduce into the island reforms which may look very well upon paper, but which, after all, are not so very much better than other reforms which have been extorted by the same influence from the same Power, and which may suffer the same fate as those previous reforms have done. I think hon. Members opposite will admit that I have put their argument which is at the bottom of their feeling on this question fairly and in a manner which they will not desire to alter or, I hope, to add to. I can only say upon this point that Her Majesty's Government entirely feel the force of that argument. They recognise perfectly well—perfectly clearly, as clearly as any hon. Gentleman opposite can do—that to leave Crete in a condition, bless it with what paper reforms you like, in which it would rest with the Turkish Government to upset by its own will the good work which Europe has endeavoured to accomplish—to do that would fall far short of the international duties we have taken upon ourselves. [Cheers.] I do not think that I ought to say more upon the subject. The House will, I hope, appreciate the difficulties under which I speak. [Cheers.] And I hope that, although I am necessarily most reticent in the observations I have to make in regard to the future, the House will allow that the frank and clear statement of the difficulties which hon. Gentlemen opposite see in the future, and which we recognise as clearly as they do, may satisfy them that everything will be done which we can do to obviate dangers of which we ourselves are fully conscious. [Cheers.] With that declaration, which I trust may not be unsatisfactory, I hope that the House may consent to bring to an end as soon as may be a Debate which I can most conscientiously say will, in my judgment, serve neither the interests of Europe, nor the interests of Crete, nor—perhaps of no less importance—the interests of this country. [Cheers.] The task in which we are engaged is an anxious and difficult one. I hope the House will not make it more difficult by Debates animated, I believe, by honest, fervid feeling, by the expression of sentiments which I fully recognise not only exist strongly in this House, but are largely felt by gentleman of all opinions and all classes out of doors. [Cheers.] I believe that if they do not wholly trust our capacity they will at all events give us credit for good intentions—[cheers and cries of "No!"]—and for an earnest desire to do the best we can for the population of the island with a full consciousness of all the difficulties that have prevented reforms in the past, and an earnest desire to see that those difficulties shall not interfere with reforms in the future. [Cheers.]

*SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT, (Monmouthshire, W.)

who rose amid cheers, said: I am quite sure that no man in this House will speak on this subject without a sense of responsibility; but this I do feel, that the time has come when the voice of England ought to be heard upon this question. [Cheers.] Upon a question involving the liberties of the Greek people the voice of England has always been the first and the leading voice. I think that it is just 70 years since the death of Canning. In those days the voice of England was heard in Europe, and with great effect, in the cause of Greece. The right hon. Gentleman has invited our silence and he has spoken of the combustible condition of things in the Greek waters. Yes, Sir, but it is because of the combustible condition of things there that we protest to-day against shells from English men-of-war—[cheers]—being exploded in the midst of that combustible material. The right hon. Gentleman has spoken sarcastically of the appeal of my hon. Friend the Member for Mayo to the principles of international law. I am afraid I must also submit myself to his lash; I must ask, What is the international position which England claims to occupy to-day in Crete? ["Hear, hear!"] What is the position of things in Crete? Crete is a country nominally subject to Turkey. It is a part of the Turkish dominions. An insurrection has arisen in Turkish dominions. Why are you there? [Cheers.] What are you doing there? What is your object? Why, Sir, apparently your object is to assert and to maintain the dominion of Turkey against the insurgents. [Cheers.] What were those bombs fired from the British Fleet for? I suppose to put down the insurrection in Crete as against the Turks. The right hon. Gentleman has said that you have occupied these towns. Yes, but what have you occupied them for? [Cheers.] Why are you in those towns at all? For what purpose did you go to them? Well, the Greek forces have joined the insurrectionary forces in Crete. That, of course, is on their own responsibility. One country may join one side in an insurrection. The Creeks have joined the insurrectionary Cretans, and you have joined the Turks. [Loud cheers.]


That is not correct. [Cheers.]


But what is correct? [Cheers.] We know whom the Greeks have joined. Whom have you joined? [Cheers, and an HON. MEMBER: "Neither."] I want to get to the bottom of the situation internationally. What are you doing here, and what is the object at which you are aiming? [Cheers.] Now, there is another statement to which no answer has been made. A question has not been put, but I find this stated in the correspondence to-day, and I should like to know if it is true:— The foreign admirals went to-day to Agioi Theodoroi, where Colonel Vassos' camp is situated. On their return they invited the commander of the Greek warship Nauarchos Miaulis to call upon them, and informed him of their decision to attack the Greek troops with the four men-of-war anchored off Agioi Theodoroi if Colonel Vassos should advance into the interior. This is in The Times correspondence of to-day, and we ought to have a statement as to whether or not it is true. It proceeds:— The commander of the Nauarchos Miaulis and the British Admiral then proceeded to the Greek headquarters and acquainted Colonel Vassos with the decision of the foreign commanders. Is that true? Did the British Admiral make that communication to Colonel Vassos? And then, I ask, if that is so, What is your international situation? By what right and on what title and from what point of view are you taking sides in this insurrection? [Cheers.] That is an international question on which I am afraid the right hon. Gentleman would condemn me if I offered an opinion. But what we have a right to do is to ask Her Majesty's Government their opinion on this subject. [Cheers.] We are told that the Great Powers have taken this matter up. Well, Sir, but the Great Powers have been taking these matters up for a long time. [Cheers.] We have had the Concert of Europe in Armenia. What was told us with reference to the Concert of Europe in Armenia? That nothing could be done, and now we are waiting upon the Concert of Europe to determine upon the future of Crete, and meanwhile we are bombarding the insurgents. [Cheers and laughter.] That is not a condition of things which, in my opinion, ought to be allowed to continue. ["Hear, hear!"] If the Concert of Europe cannot come to a conclusion on the subject of the treatment of Crete, we ought not to take the part which unfortunately we seem to have been taking in these affairs for the last two days. ["Hear, hear!"] We have received a statement, and I am satisfied with that statement—it is understood that Lord Salisbury has sent a circular to the Powers to say that they should not interfere with Greece—and I should have thought interfered with Crete at all—until the Powers had come to a conclusion as to what was to be done in the future with Crete. If that is so, why are you bombarding in the meantime? [Cheers.] Why do the Powers not come to a conclusion in the matter. ["Hear, hear!"] I should like to know whether the Government adhere to that position—the sound position which is stated to have been taken up by Lord Salisbury in this matter. Why not adhere to that position—that they will take no part with reference to Greece, and that they will take no part in the Cretan insurrection, until a conclusion has been arrived at by the Powers as to the future treatment of Crete? ["Hear, hear!"] We are told that if we meddle in these matters there will be universal war. That argument has been used—I was going to say it has been abused—[cheers]—for some time. Whenever anything occurs, whether in Armenia, in Crete, or anywhere else, you say at once, "Do not say a word, or there will be universal war." But we are not going to make war. We want nothing. Why should war take place? ["Hear, hear!"] I do not understand what this universal war is to be. We are not going to fight anybody. Who is going to fight, and against whom? We ought to have some explanation of that. [Cheers.] Why, then, are we to be told, with reference to this Concert of Europe, which does nothing, that we are to hold our peace, and take part in nothing, because universal war will occur, and no explanation is given why a war should occur, or of what nature it will be? We ought to understand whether we are acting in this matter according to the old formula of that superannuated diplomacy which goes by the name of the integrity and independence of the Ottoman Empire? [Cheers.] Then we shall understand our position. It is one against which I shall protest. I rather gather from the right hon. Gentleman the hope that what the Government are proceeding to do is to detach Crete from Turkish rule. That is the only policy which, in my opinion, is worthy of an English Government—[cheers]—and I hope that the Government are pursuing that policy. If, as I had believed from the account given of the circular of Lord Salisbury, it were the fact that he was pressing that policy, that he was demanding and pressing upon the Powers to come to an understanding upon that subject, I can assure the Government that, as far as I am concerned, I should have given them my cordial support. [The FIRST LORD of the TREASURY: "Hear, hear!"] I hope that is still their policy. I think the principle laid down by Lord Salisbury is a perfectly sound one, and I hope he will adhere to it, whatever else may be done by any other Power. [Cheers.] What is wanted is, that the Powers should come to a determination without delay on the question of emancipating Crete from Turkish rule. That is the point to which I think we ought to direct all our thoughts and energies—["hear, hear!"]—but in the meanwhile, until such a decision has been arrived at, and in order to precipitate such a decision, let us, for Heaven's sake, abstain from being the leading actor in putting down this insurrection—[cheers]—because we are presented to Europe and to Greece as the bombarding Power in this affair. Why is England, who is, I believe, the most desirous to bring this matter to a speedy and safe conclusion—why should we be put forward as the loading actors in this transaction? [Cheers.] I regret that very much, as on the policy of the Government generally in endeavouring to come to a settlement I am not disposed to oppose them, but rather to support them in what I understand to be their policy in demanding a settlement on the Cretan question before they interfere in any way with Greece. If that is their policy I am sure they will be supported. ["Hear, hear!"] But what shocks this House and gives great uneasiness and causes great condemnation outside this House is that, in the meanwhile, we should appear as the active opponents of the Greek cause by what we are doing, that we should be occupying these towns in Crete—for whom? Obviously for the Turk, who is nominally master of Crete. I confess I think this bombardment a most unfortunate event—an event which places England in a false position in the eyes of all the world. [Cheers.] My hon. Friend the Member for Northampton has made this Motion, as I understand it, as a protest against that transaction, and in order that, in the House of Commons, where we have an opportunity of expressing the voice of the people we represent, we may protest, until the emancipation of Crete is accomplished, against our being the foremost to take up arms, as it were, against a people who are fighting, and rightly fighting, for their own freedom. [Loud cheers.]


said that the right hon. Gentleman had made a most serious and dangerous proposal. The right hon. Gentleman's speech was an invitation—nay, a challenge—to the Government to break up the Concert of Europe. The conflict in Crete was a conflict between the Greeks on the one hand, and united Europe on the other. [Opposition cries of "Oh!" and cheers.] Hon. Members had apparently forgotten that not six months ago the Powers of Europe, acting together, framed a new-constitution for Crete. It was true that they did not know exactly what it was—[Opposition cheers]—but that constitution did exist, and the Powers had appointed their own Governor in the island, where he was ruler until be absconded the other day. It was contrary to fact to say that England was fighting with Greece. What had really occurred was that Greece had undertaken a piratical expedition. [Loud Opposition, cries of " Oh!" and cheers.] Yes; for no allegation had been made against Turkey, and no demand had been made for reparation of an injury. It was, therefore, a piratical expedition. [Renewed cries of "Oh!"] But he did not understand the proceedings of the Powers. He could not comprehend why one day they should prohibit Greece from landing troops and munitions of war and permit her to do so on the next. [Opposition cheers.] It was not, however, correct to suggest, as the right hon. Gentleman had done, that England was fighting either against Christians or Greece. What England was doing was this—she was acting with the European Powers against a piratical expedition. Shots, however, had been fired, and practically England was at war at this moment. [Opposition cheers, and Mr. DILLON: "With whom?"] He did not quite know. [Laughter.] That was one of the things he wanted to know; but undoubtedly acts of war had been committed, and that was a matter upon which that House had a right to have all the information which the Government could give. He did not say that they had a right to information as to the negotiations of the Powers with respect to the future, but they ought to know the actual course of events of which the firing formed part. Crete was a region of mountains, with ravines running down to the seashore. Did the Government intend to occupy the seaport towns and to leave the Greek troops in occupation of the interior? Did they intend to allow the Greeks to continue to land troops, stores, and munitions of war in Crete, and did they intend to prevent the Turks from doing likewise? Although the constitution invented for Crete and surrounded with guarantees by the Powers had tumbled to pieces, the Government said that they would not do anything until they know what the future was to be. He had no sympathy with this Motion for Adjournment, and he quite recognised the extreme gravity of the situation. At the same time, he could not forget that acts of war were being committed by British ships, and, in the circumstances, he held that they were entitled to have a plain statement from the Government of the plan by which they proposed to pacify the Island of Crete. ["Hear, hear!"]

SIR ROBERT REID (Dumfries Burghs)

was glad that the hon. Member for King's Lynn had asked the Government for information. The position that they had been in during the whole of this Eastern crisis—for the last 18 months—had been most deplorable. The Government could not say that during that time any unpatriotic action had been taken by bon. Members on his side of the House. ["Hear, hear!"] But at that moment they did not know what the policy of the Government was either in regard to Armenia or in regard to Crete. ["Hear, hear!"] In the last 12 months they had heard the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs say at least 40 times that these questions were being carefully considered by the Powers. Nothing had come of the negotiations of the Powers; they had not availed to prevent the shedding of Christian blood; all that they had done was to bring into odium and public contempt the Concert of Europe. ["Hear, hear!"] The hon. Member for King's Lynn said that there had been a piratical expedition on the part of Greece. Did not the hon. Member know that the essence of a piratical expedition was that it must be an expedition for which no Government made itself: responsible? In the present instance the Hellenic Government had made itself responsible in circumstances reflecting the greatest honour upon it. [Cheers.] Let them consider for a moment what was the position of the Greeks. Their kinsmen, men of their own blood, were in an island some 60 miles from their own coast. These kinsmen of theirs had for the last 70 years been striving for freedom in various ways. They had fought for it repeatedly, and took part in the Greek war of independence, but were not allowed to share the fruits of victory. They had been treated in a manner which could hardly bear recital, and what had they now at last risen for? It was to defend their wives and daughters against nameless outrages, to prevent their homes from being desolated and themselves from being slaughtered without pity by the same race that had perpetrated the atrocities in Armenia. Those were the reasons of the action of these men upon whom the guns of Her Majesty's ships had been firing. [Cheers.] The six Powers, afraid of one another, who had done nothing in Armenia, were content for some time to do nothing in connection with Crete. It was true that the six Powers did in August last succeed in getting a paper Constitution for Crete from the Turks, but that Constitution was only worth the paper it was written on—nothing more. These brave Powers never sent troops to Canea and the other towns of Crete when massacres were going on, but they interfered as soon as the Greeks landed. He should think that the Greeks had come to the conclusion that the Concert of Europe was contemptible; at any rate they were not afraid to risk shedding their blood in support of men of their own race, men belonging to the most famous race in Europe, who saved civilisation against Oriental attack 2,300 years ago. [Cheers.] Every gallant man must desire that the legitimate aspiration for amalgamation on the part of Greece and Crete should be fulfilled, whenever its fulfilment should be possible consistently with European peace and order. [" Hear, hear!"] The Opposition had not been unreasonable in their conduct. Last autumn it was pointed out with much force by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in a speech which had a great effect upon the agitation then begun, that we could not operate effectually in a military or naval sense to assist the Armenians, and immediately it was seen that further agitation would draw the country into danger without doing real good to the wretched Armenians the Opposition suppressed—perhaps too much—["hear, hear!"]—the feelings with which they were inspired. But then we did not take the part of the Turks. What was being done now was something quite different, and the participation of our ships in the matter was an indelible disgrace to the British Government. ["Hear, hear!"] Their ships had fired upon poor, wretched people who had risen for no other purpose than to defend their homes, their wives, and children. [Cheers] Those were the people upon whom the Government had fired, and it was an unworthy act and an unmanly duty to impose on British seamen. [Cheers.] He deeply regretted it, and he feared that it would result in the degradation of the great name and fame of this country in the eyes of Europe and of the people of the East. The First Lord of the Treasury had suggested,— Here are we entering upon three towns; is it to be tolerated that the insurgents shall come in and tire on towns where our flag is flying? But was it the case that the Government were allowing the Turks to fire from within those ramparts on the insurgents? [Cheers.] It could not be denied that the Turks were doing this. What was the position? It was that we, the British Power, by means of our Navy and Marines, were holding these three towns and allowing the Turks to sally out and fire on the insurgents when the latter approached to return the fire—which, he hoped they would always continue to do. [Cheers.] No one would satisfy the average Englishman, Scotchman, or Irishman that this was a worthy or a respectable thing for a great Power like this to do. The Leader of the Opposition had spoken in a manner which must have attracted the attention and the respect of the House. The right hon. Gentleman had stated that it was our duty to have remained neutral, at all events until after the future of Crete had been settled, and not to take any aggressive action against Greece until that time had arrived. He understood that his right hon. Friend was limiting his observations to the point which was necessary to raise for the moment. For his own part, however, he declared that, whether arrangements were made or not, if at any time in respect of this matter the British Government was found attacking Greece, whether before or after any such arrangement, he for one—and he believed there were a great many other hon. Members—would object in the strongest possible way. [Cheers.] If we could not be saviours, let us not be executioners. [Cheers.] What the terror might be that seemed to haunt the right hon. Gentleman and the Govern- ment he could not say, nor did he deny the great responsibility of his position or seek to ignore the difficulties of the position; yet, in spite of the right hon. Gentleman's assurance that all the Powers were most anxious to avoid war, somehow we might find ourselves embarked in a war. He accepted the statement of fact, and did not seek to question it; but it was a very curious situation. At all events, this was clear—that the peace of Europe would not be improved by taking up the position of firing on the insurgents in Crete; that could do nothing to improve the prospects of peace. [Cheers.] It seemed to be a most strange thing that there were no materials, no details, in the hands of the Government, although the incidents took place on Saturday.

THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. G. J. GOSCHEN,) St. George's, Hanover Square

They took place yesterday.


said if this was the case they must put up with the want of information.


How did the Daily News know about it?


said at any rate this fact was true, that under some orders—they did not know what—British ships had fired on these unhappy insurgents, whose cause was as sacred, as honourable, as that which any men had ever risen to defend by arms. [Cheers.] He expressed his deep regret that not a word had been said to show regret for this action, which he thought would have far-reaching consequences, not only in respect of the Government themselves, but because it would leave a lasting stain on the reputation of this country. [Cheers.]


I do not suppose that it is the intention of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite first to misrepresent what has taken place and then to express their indignation about it. We have a few particulars, and I can place before the House real facts as to what took place. The incident is, of course, to be regretted—[ironical laughter]—everyone must regret that an incident of this kind should have been necessary. But the fact was that time after time the insurgents had been warned that they were not to advance to such a point where their guns would command the town. In that town there would be various detachments of the allied Powers, and if the insurgents placed their guns where they intended to place them they would have been in command of the spots where the allied forces had been placed. In these circumstances, day after clay a council of Admirals urged the insurgents and Colonel Vassos not to advance beyond certain points. They showed as much patience and forbearance as it was their duty to show in such circumstances, because it was admitted that the great object should be to prevent a shot from being tired. Notwithstanding all the remonstrances, or possibly in order to force the situation, the insurgents disregarded what had been done by the allied commanders and took up those positions which would have commanded the town. The right hon. Gentleman says that we attempted to put down the insurrection. I say it is a ridiculous exaggeration. [Cheers.] It is not a misrepresentation, and there was no object—


Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly answer my question upon this dispatch, wherein it is stated that the incident took place, not yesterday, but on Saturday? [The right hon. Gentleman again read the telegram in The Times, dated Canea, Feb. 20, as already given.]


I am perfectly prepared to say that the word "interior" must be an entire mistake. There is not an indication in a telegram received from Canea that that was the policy or the act of any single Admiral. I see now what the right hon. Gentleman feared was that Colonel Vassos was attacked in order that he might not take some steps into the interior. That is an entire mistake. The Admirals represented that the situation in the town of Canea was getting more dangerous day after day; and it was in consequence of the advance of the insurgents on Canea, and on account of that alone, that they were obliged to take this action, which all regret, though deemed to be necessary not only for the defence of Canea but for the defence of the detachments in that place. That is the explanation of the incident so far as we have information on the subject. In reply to what was said by the hon. and learned Gentleman, that we have not attempted to save a drop of Christian blood—["hear, hear!"]—I have to say that he has not read the dispatches, and he has not read the newspapers. [Cheers.]


What I said was that they had not succeeded in saving it.


Then you have not read the dispatches. [Several HON. MEMBERS: "Where are they? "] I will tell you. Hon. Members have said that there is no Party purpose in all this. [Ministerial laughter and cheers.] Why, then, these exaggerations; why are you telling the public outside who have not access to the documents and to the same information—


I say it is true. [Cheers.]


I say not only that it is false—[cheers]—but that not even the enthusiasm of the hon. Member justifies the gross carelessness that can alone—["Oh, oh!" cries of "Withdraw," and cheers.]


The right hon. Gentleman speaks of dispatches; where are the dispatches? [Cheers.]


The right hon. Gentleman, with all his Parliamentary resource, is not going to save the hon. Member. [Opposition cries of "Where are the dispatches?" and uproar.] The right hon. Gentleman quoted a dispatch which he had seen in a newspaper this morning. [Opposition cries of " No, no," and "Yes, he did" from the Ministerial Benches.] I will state the whole information and what is known by everyone who has studied this question. ["Oh, oh!"] I am not anxious merely to defend the Government, but I am anxious that false statements which might reflect on the general policy of this country should not be allowed to circulate. I say that we have assisted the Christians in many parts of Crete, that many a Christian woman and child is saved now that would not have been saved. ["Oh, oh!" and cheers.] Hon. Members may accept it from me that this is so. We have conveyed, we have watched the embarkation of Christians from various Mussulman towns, we have assisted to get them off, we have assisted to feed them, and we have done ail we could in order to protect Christian life. [Cheers.] When the Consuls have telegraphed that Christians were in danger in any one of these towns we have immediately sent a ship there in order to overawe the Mussulmans and to protect life. Why are we there? We are at those places where the Mussulmans are in the majority, and where the Christians are in the minority, and our presence gave security to both. We have been absolutely neutral as between Christian and Mussulman; we have been anxious to save the lives of each equally. I have shown what the truth is in regard to the firing on the insurgents. I have shown that it is not true, that it is absolutely false, that it was for the protection of the Mussulmans or Mahomedans that we have been acting. We have sent ship after ship, we have increased our forces there, not to put down the insurgents, but in order to have ships at those points where disorders were likely to take place, and in order to assist in keeping order. And let me further remind the House with regard to the charge brought against us that we have been favourable to Turkey in this matter. The fact is that pressure was put on the Turkish Government not to send troops to Crete. We made them diminish their garrisons there, we did all we could to prevent this lamentable outbreak between the Mahomedans and the Christians, who, after all, are both Cretans. It is not only the Christians who are Cretans, but the Mussulman and Mahomedan population of the island also. We have done our best to keep an even scale between the two sections, and we shall continue to do our best to see whether after all, notwithstanding all these deplorable incidents, we shall not be able to say that the intervention of the Concert of Europe has been to the advantage of Crete and to the inhabitants thereof, whether Mussulman or Christian.


May I say one word of personal explanation? I deeply regret that I should have been the subject or the occasion of any heat on the part of the right hon. Gentleman. I think those who heard what I said, and what I think I said, will never suppose I intended to impute to the Government that they did not attempt or desire to rescue Christians. Of course they attempted and desired to rescue Christians. All I meant to say, and all I think I said, was that they had not succeeded, and in my humble opinion, in regard to Armenia, which is I think what I was speaking about, that statement is absolutely true. I have always refrained from making personal attacks, and I regret that, for some reason best known to himself—["Oh!" from the Ministerialists]—the hon. Gentleman should have attacked me.

MR. VESEY KNOX (Londonderry)

said that, according to the published reports for three or four days past, under the shelter of the ships of the Powers and the protection of British bluejackets and marines, the Turks had been making sorties and attacking the Cretans in the villages. If our troops were doing police duty in Crete why did not they do police duty upon every disturber of the peace, whether he were Mohammedan or Christian? The First Lord of the Admiralty had said, warnings had been given to the Greeks and to the Cretans that they were not to advance nearer to Canea, but all the time the Turkish troops were allowed to issue forth from under the ramparts of Canea, and attack the Cretans. Was it not human nature in these instances that the Cretans should attempt to stop these sorties? A telegram had just arrived in the House stating that neither the French nor the Italian vessels fired a single shot last Sunday afternoon. [Cheers.] Was that true or not? ["Heal, hear!"] Was it a fact that the whole shame, the whole disgrace of that Christian Sunday afternoon's work—["hear, hear!"]—rested upon Germany, England, and Austria? Was it true that the only two other free countries in Europe refused to take their part in that butchery of Christians. If that were so, it infinitely deepened the shame that rested upon the British Government and the Britsh nation. Another part of the right hon. Gentleman's statement required explanation. He told them that for several days past the British and other Admirals had been warning the Greeks and Cretans not to attack Canea. He presumed those orders were reported home, and that the right hon. Gentlemen knew those threats were being made. Therefore, it was clear the blame for what had happened was not the blame of the Admiral but the blame of the Government at home. When the Government, a few days ago, asked for the confidence of the House and refused to give to the House the plain facts as to what were the orders given to the Admirals, those were the orders given. [Cheers.]. It was butchery—butchery of Christians, done to order by the Government of Great, Britain. [Renewed cheers.] Those were the plain facts, and the man who was directly responsible for the action of the ships was not the sailor in command, but the First Lord of the Admiralty at home. ["Hear, hear!"] Again, he asked how was it we showed such zeal in butchery? The others were content with one vessel apiece. Two of them did not even fire a shot from their single vessels, but we fired more shots than the rest of the vessels put together. If we wanted to preserve the Concert of Europe one would have thought that we should have had more respect for the other nations than to outdo them. But the zeal for the Concert of Europe was a secondary matter; we wished to show the great naval strength of Great Britain, and so we were entitled before the world to this latest exhibition of our maritime supremacy. The people of this country had been taxed over and over again the last few years to increase the Navy. Did they suppose that this was the sort of purpose to which British ships and British men were to be put? The event of that Sunday afternoon would not soon be forgotten by the great mass of God-fearing people of this country. ["Hear, hear!"] The Government had used its power to attack Christians, and they said they protected Christians; but when, in the course of protecting Christians had they ever shot a Turk? [Cheers.] Let the Government name a case. There had not been a case in all the disputes in Crete in which they had fired a tingle shot to defend the Christians against the Mussulmans, but they had seized the first available opportunity to attack the Christians in defence of the Turks at Canea—not to protect helpless Turks, but, to protect Turks in the possession of arms who had been engaged in sorties upon the Christians, and who were now our allies in operations of war against the Christians on the heights surrounding the town, and who had used the sheltering power of our batteries in order to fire on wounded Cretans as they were being taken away from the field. Those were the plain facts of the story, and under the circumstances it was the duty of every man in the House who had any feeling for the fame of England, and of Ireland, and of Scotland, who were thus dragged at England's heels—it, was the duty of every man in the House who had any resepct for the power of Christendom, to give a vote in favour of the Motion as a protest against the bloodguiltiness of Her Majesty's Government. [Cheers.]


said that the whole basis of the ease presented to the House by the hon. and learned Member for Dumfries Burghs (Sir R. Reid) consisted of the most absolute misstatement of the facts. [Laughter.] What were the facts with regard to the present movement in Crete? It was by no means clear that the Cretan insurgents themselves, or the bulk of them, at any rate, wanted the intervention of Greece. But the action of Greece had forced the position in Crete, and had forced the hands of the Powers. It was by no means clear that the arrival of an. armed Greek force was desired by the Cretan Christians. They desired autonomy, equal laws, and a. Christian Governor, and those concessions had been made. The only excuse which could be given for the action of the Greeks was that there was a serious condition of anarchy in the island at the time of the intervention. The statement that since August last there had been massacres of Christians by Mussulmans in Crete was absolutely false. [Opposition laughter.] There was not a shred of evidence in support of it. The truth was that at this moment the persecuted, the outraged, and the massacred in Crete were the Mussulmans and not the Christians. [Opposition laughter and "Hear, hear!"] That was the simple truth, and if a European Commission was appointed to investigate into the facts, what he said would be absolutely confirmed. The only correspondent on the spot, the correspondent of The Times, gave evidence, not on hearsay, but quoted from Italian, Russian and French officers who had seen those cases of massacre of Mussulmans, men, women and children. In August last the Turkish Government gave way completely to the demands of the Powers, and granted to Crete an entirely new Constitution, which was gratefully accepted by both sections of the population.


Order, order! The hon. Gentleman is going outside the question before the House. I am quite aware there has been considerable latitude in this discussion, but I think the remarks of hon. Gentlemen are too remote from the Motion.


said he was answering the hon. Gentleman who had stated that the new Constitution for Crete had been rendered null and void by the Turkish Government. That was another absolutely false statement. A large portion of the new Constitution had been put into force and was in operation. What was the result? The moment there appeared to be a chance of a settlement being made and tranquillity restored to the island, the Greek secret societies sent emissaries to Crete and poured 20,000 stands of arms into the island. It was in consequence of this that the Austrian Government last November proposed the blockade of the Piræus.


Order, order! The hon. Gentleman will not be in order in pursuing that line of argument.


said he must, therefore, confine himself to the statement that not, a single fact had been advanced in the Debate in support of the allegation that there had been massacres of Christians by Mussulmans and to justify the intervention of Greece. It was of the utmost importance to the Christians throughout the Ottoman Empire that justice should be done to the Mussulmans in Crete. ["Hear, hear!"] There had been no attack on the insurgents in the island; it. was the insurgents who had attacked Canea. [Laughter.] That town was crammed with defenceless Mussulman women and children, and the only protection they had from the insurgents was that afforded by the forces of the Powers. If the truth were only known in this country, the sympathy of that large section of the people which hon. Gentlemen opposite boasted that they had with them would disappear. He hoped the Government would not allow the so-called facts of hon. Members opposite to be poured upon the country without definite contradiction. The Government knew that the provocation came from the Christians, and they ought not to hesitate to lay the whole truth of the case before the country, so that the people might have before them both sides of the question. ["Hear, hear!"] After all, there were 70,000 Mussulmans in Crete, and they had as much right to live and to protection as the Christian population. Since the reduction of the Turkish garrisons the Cretan Mussulmans had been at the mercy of the Cretan Christians, except in two or three towns, and the Powers were bound to protect these Mussulmans, between whom and outrage and wholesale butchery there now only stood the Marines of the allied Powers. For the reasons he had given he should earnestly vote against the Motion. ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. F. A. CHANNING (Northampton, E.)

said the First Lord of the Treasury and the First Lord of the Admiralty had evaded the real facts which led to the firing by the ships on Sunday. The correct version was to be found in the official dispatch of Colonel Vassos, the Creek commander, who said:— On receipt of intelligence that the Canea garrison was marching against the Christians, I sent a company of volunteers to co-operate against the 1,500 troops of the Canea garrison. That was the origin of the operations which occurred on Saturday and Sunday. It was perfectly obvious that the statements of the First Lord of the Treasury as to the threats of the Greek commander upon the towns occupied by the allied forces, and of the First Lord of the Admiralty that the insurgents were advancing their guns to a position from which they could command the inferior of Canea, were absolutely inconsistent with what had actually occurred. The facts were as given in the dispatch of Colonel Vassos, and the Government had deliberately run away from them. It had been ascertained that the act of war by the British ships was committed in obedience to some orders, and before the Debate was closed the House must insist on knowing by whom (hose orders were given. [Cheers.] They had the clearest proof that the advance of the Cretans was solely and entirely due to an attack begun by the Turkish troops—that the Turkish troops were allowed to go out from their fortresses under protection of the guns of the British Fleet and commit marauding outrages against the insurgents, and when the insurgents retaliated and defeated the Turks, then the British Admiral ordered his men to tire upon the Cretans and commit this terrible act of war. ["Hear, hear!"] They had a right (o say that the Government should deal with the facts and not indulge in such vague generalities as those which the First Lord of the Treasury and the First Lord of the Admiralty had endeavoured to use as soporifics to the common sense of that House and of the country. [Opposition cheers and Ministerial laughter.] There had been a gross, wicked, and tyrannical interference with the position of these insurgents by the British Fleet under the orders of the British Government—["hear, hear!"]—and they should insist on having the fullest explanation of how this came about. They had a right to know what this act of war was to be followed by. Was this policy of turning loose the strongest weapons of naval warfare in the world to move down these poor Cretans to be followed by the blockading of the Piraeus, and an interference on the part of this country with the splendid attempt of the Creeks to obtain their liberty?

SIR JOHN LUBBOCK (London University)

said the accusation made by his hon. and learned Friend the Member for Dumfries of a stain being east on the British name was one which ought not lightly to be made in that House. ["Hear, hear!"] His hon. and learned Friend had told them (hat he made no personal attack upon any Member of the Government, but if he were not attacking the First Lord of the Admiralty, who was he attacking? [Cheers.] Was he attacking the British Admiral? He believed hon. Members opposite would agree that it was not right for any hon. Member to get up and in the House attack their Admirals abroad unless they had the clearest evidence that they had done something which they ought not to have done. [Cheers.] He did not rise to continue this discussion, but rather to express a very earnest hope that it might be allowed to come to an end. [Ministerial cheers and Opposition cries of "Oh!"] He believed there was not really any great or very important difference between the two sides of the House as to what they wished at the present moment. He believed they would all agree that this was a most critical moment for Europe as a whole. ["Hear, hear!"] They were standing upon a powder barrel, and if it once went off there might be terrible results to the whole of Europe. If, when the whole circumstances came to light, it was claimed that Her Majesty's Government had done anything contrary to the policy of this country, he should make no complaint of any attack upon them. He gladly recognised that up to the present-time, in these difficult circumstances, the Leaders of the Opposition had adopted a wise and patriotic policy. ["Hear, hear!"] He spoke with a deep sense of the gravity of the situation, and of the importance to all of them throughout Europe of maintaining the Concert of Europe and of friendly and harmonious action between the Great Powers. Was that likely to be assisted by such language as they had heard that afternoon from some hon. Gentlemen opposite? [Cheers.] It would be in accordance with the traditions of English policy and of the House of Commons that they should, while negotiations were going on, give their support to the Government and leave to them the responsibility. ["Hear, hear!"] Discussions in that House at the present moment were, he maintained, dangerous, and he hoped the House would not imperil that peace which they all had at heart by continuing a discussion which could do no good and which might do incalculable harm. ["Hear, hear!"]


asked for distinct and decided declarations from Her Majesty's Government on two points. They had heard in the course of that Debate reference made to the circular of Lord Salisbury in which he declared, on the part of England, that he would not be a party to the employment of force against the Cretans unless there was a distinct understanding as to the future government of the Island of Crete. They had had no explanation whatever as to the tenor of that circular. Had Lord Salisbury, in the name of England, declared—what he thought every Englishman felt he ought to declare—that the future government of Crete assented to by Great Britain should in no sense whatever be connected with the Turkish Empire? ["Hear, hear!"] Unless he had made that declaration, then the sooner he and England withdrew from the Concert of Europe the better it would be for the liberties of the Cretans. ["Hear, hear!"] If he had made that declaration, then, he asked, why was the incident of yesterday permitted by Her Majesty's Government? [Cheers.] He had the highest opinion, as they all had, not only of the valour of the Admirals commanding their Fleet, but of their good sense and prudence. But the Admirals in this case were merely the instruments of the Government. [Cheers.] It was not the Admirals they were attacking, but the Gentlemen who were sitting on that Front Bench opposite, and who by their silence—not what he would call a wise and patriotic reticence, but a shamed and humiliated reticence—showed that they were unable to explain the incident which had cast a stain on the name of England. ["Hear, hear!"] The other point on which he wished for a declaration from the Government was this—whether they were to understand that the Great Powers of Europe now occupied the four towns in Crete for the purpose of maintaining order. If that were so, he asked that the Government should make a distinct declaration that from those towns no Turkish garrison or troops should be allowed to make sorties. ["Hear, hear!"] Unless they took that responsibility upon themselves, what was the need of the presence of the allied forces in those towns? They were there to maintain order, and surely the first step towards that end was to see that the Turkish soldiers in those towns were kept in proper check and control. He believed that when the country became aware of the lame and lamentable explanation which had been offered by the Government they would say that if the Concert of Europe was to be maintained by means like this, the sooner they of Great Britain had done with it the better. ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. STUART-WORTLEY (Sheffield, Hallam)

said he should like to know whether the main and initial fact was not this—that the British Government, allied with the Powers, had practically prevented the Sultan from suppressing the insurrection in Crete, and had not thus rendered to the Cretan population service infinitely greater than any that would have been rendered if they had abstained from intervening between the contending parties? ["Hear, hear!"] The hon. Member who had just spoken said we had made ourselves responsible for preventing sorties from the Turkish garrison.


That they ought to have been prevented.


said if we made ourselves responsible for that, we must go further, and prevent attacks on the garrison. It was generally supposed, and was a matter of history, that a garrison with an enemy outside made sorties to repel attack. This was not all the protection afforded to the insurgents, for had we not, by our occupation of the island, prevented the garrisons being reinforced, as otherwise they surely would have been by large bodies of troops from Constantinople? ["Hear, hear!"] He hoped the House would pause well before condemning what had been done on this occasion, and he could not admit the alternative policy that had been offered to that of Her Majesty's Government, an alternative policy which would mean, if it meant anything, that we should abstain from all interference, and leave Turkey to suppress this insurrection according to her known and ordinary methods, by fire and sword, and by practices that to every civilised nation were infinitely worse even than lire and sword. ["Hear!"] He could not congratulate Members of the Opposition when, with singular ineptitude, they had no better alternative to offer. ["Hear, hear!"]


desired some definite information upon points as to which the House had only had assertions. Three assertions had been made on reports in newspapers whose correspondents had on other occasions been found to be right on matters of fact when Government statements were found to be wrong. The first of these was that a force of the Powers in the town of Canea had protected the Turks in making a sortie against the insurgents, who had not attacked them. The second was that the Powers had forced the insurgents out of a position which they had been allowed to maintain for four days previously. The third assertion made, to which a partial denial had been given, was that the Powers caused information to be conveyed to the commander of the Greek force that he would be opposed by force if he endeavoured to go into the interior of the island. Further, he asked the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs if he could give any information as to the allegation that a British gunboat had brought under the control of British ships a Greek vessel carrying supplies for the Greek troops in Crete? The answer of the First Lord of the Treasury was similar to that given by Mr. Disraeli in the summer of 1876 when asked questions—that official dispatches did not contain the information. The First Lord of the Admiralty was the first to introduce party heat into the Debate—["oh, oh!"]—with a number of vehement assertions for which neither he nor his colleagues had given a particle of evidence. Twenty years ago there was a very similar position, and Mr. Disraeli gave denials of statements because they were not in official reports. One thing came to his mind in connection with the present situation. Only last year, at the Lord Mayor's banquet, Lord Salisbury, making excuses for the helplessness of the Powers in dealing with the Armenian question, said:— We at least possess no Army big enough to attack Turkey, and our Navy cannot sail across the mountains of Armenia. Here was a case where the Navy could and did sail to the seat of operations, and what did they find? Instead of making war on the accursed savages who massacred Christians whenever they could, they found that the British guns were turned against the Christians Lord Salisbury pretended he wanted to protect. ["Hear!"] One thing the Government could tell them—if not facts upon official information, they could state their intentions. It was a significant fact that the principal ships that fired, following the lead of the British ships, yesterday, were German ships. The French ships did not fire, the Italian ships did not fire; they were German ships that took part with British ships in the bombardment. He asked, Were the Government veering round to the views of the Emperor of Germany? Were they, by protecting the Turks in making sorties on the Christian insurgents, in bombarding the insurgents out of a place they had been allowed to occupy for four days, and in allowing Turkish guns to fire on the wounded—were they going back on their former position and to that of twenty years ago? Were they going to assist the Emperor of Germany in bombarding Greece itself? ["Oh, oh!"] Was that the significance of the German ships taking part with us in this bombardment? The First Lord of the Treasury had brought before the House in solemn tones the dangers of a European war if we did anything to protect our fellow-Christians in Turkey, and it seemed a strange argument from a Government who only thirteen months ago were ready to face the world in arms for British interests alone. [Cheers.] It seemed to him a strange comment upon the Government views that, having refused to make war, they should proceed to commit murder. ["Oh, oh!"] The right hon. Gentleman (Sir J. Lubbock) said we were seated on a powder-barrel, and it was perhaps a similar idea with regard to their position in this country which had chastened the utterances of Her Majesty's Ministers. It was almost the same position twenty years ago, when a small Liberal minority faced a Government whose majority sometimes went up to 200, and that Government was supporting Turkey as the present Government did yesterday. For four years the minority carried on the unequal political war, and the first time the country had the opportunity of speaking, it was found to be overwhelmingly opposed to supporting Turkey and in favour of Turkey's Christian victims. He ventured to think that it was the memory of this that had imparted a somewhat chastened note to the speech of the Leader of the House, and he ventured to predict that, whatever might be the Government majority on this occasion, following the Concert of Europe and the multitude to do evil, the Government would be found to be writing and sealing its own doom; and, just as their predecessors did twenty years ago, they would find they were running up a severe and terrible reckoning for the future of their Party, when the country would have an opportunity of stating that in its view the Government had betrayed the national honour and gone counter to its wishes and deepest sympathies. ["Hear!"]


rose chiefly to perform the humble office of conveying to the hon. Gentleman who had just spoken some of that information for which he professed himself to be so anxious, and as the hon. Member had spoken in terms recognising the accuracy of the Press as contrasted with unreliable official information, he could give him information from a newspaper whose authority he would acknowledge—The Westminster Gazette. When the hon. Member asked why it was that only the German ships fired beside the British, The Westminster Gazette supplied the answer in a telegram from Canea. He would therein find that at a meeting of the Admirals it was decided to open fire on the insurgents only after the latter refused to obey the injunction conveyed to them not to advance any further. The ships of the Powers were drawn up in line from east to west, and the British vessels were called on to fire first, and the German, Austrian, and Russian ships in succession. When the hon. Member found significance of the European Concert coming to an end in the fact that the French and Italian ships did not fire, let him further consult The Westminster Gazette telegram, and he would learn that the order to cease firing came before it was necessary for the French and Italian vessels stationed at the western extremity of the line to take part in the demonstration. Then came information that would be distasteful to Members opposite, for it was reported that none of the insurgents were killed by the cannonade, which caused merely material damage, nut even "moral and intellectual damage." [Laughter.] Hon. Members appealed to everybody to vote for this Motion, but would they be so ready to support it if they thought there was the remotest chance of it being carried? ["Yes."] What would be the result of carrying this Motion for Adjournment? It would be the very worst day's work possible for the Cretans, because if the Motion were carried the Concert of Europe, so far as we were concerned, would be at an cud. It would simply mean that we should withdraw from the Concert of Europe, but it would not mean that we were going to face the other Powers of Europe in arms on behalf of Greece. After all, this Motion for Adjurnment would not have clone unmitigated harm—as such Motions generally did—for it would have shown the Powers of Europe that there was in this country a very strong feeling in favour of doing even more than they were inclined to do on behalf of Crete. At all events, all the Powers of Europe—which were always sceptical—would be convinced, when they saw the Leader of the Opposition enthusiastically approving of a raid into the territory of a friendly Power—[laughter and cheers]—that this country had got rid somewhat of its "unctuous rectitude," and that would be something gained. ["Hear, hear!"] He should like to ask, Did anyone doubt, after the speech of the First Lord of the Treasury, that Crete would never again be handed back to Turkey? Did anyone doubt that the Powers of Europe had decided upon something in future for Crete, which could not be very far different, perhaps, from independence, or possibly integration in the kingdom of Greece? Could anyone doubt that practically the cause of Crete had gained very largely by the part taken by this country in preventing a European war? The Leader of the Opposition asked who were going to war and where would they fight? War would take place upon those frontiers of Greece which were nearest to Turkey. Did not. anybody know what would happen if this country were to stand aside, and the Turks be allowed to go at the Greeks in their own way? Who could pretend not to see that that would only be the beginning of a war in which France, Austria, Russia, and Italy would all take part? ["Why?"] Why? Because we were probably the only Power in Europe that did not want something that belonged to the Sultan. He thought that after this Debate there was not a Power in Europe but would recognise that unless they were held back a little this country could not be kept from breaking away from the Concert of Europe altogether, and therefore, while they were asking the people of this country to have patience a little longer, it would become the Powers of Europe on their part to see if they might not somewhat hurry their operations and give some evidence of their anxiety not only to solve this difficulty, but to solve it soon, being morally assured that if the wound were kept open for a little longer that conflagration would occur in Europe which no one but the right hon. Gentleman opposite doubted the possibility of. ["Hear, hear!"] The situation was not without a parallel. The bombardment of the insurgents was a regrettable incident, but it was not unlike the act of the Government of Italy, when the Royal troops performed the painful duty of tiring on the patriots at Aspromonte, and wounding their leader, Garibaldi.


gathered from the remarks of the hon. Member for Deptford, in the first place, that he was an ardent sympathiser with the Greek nation and Greek Government in this matter; in the second place, that this discussion would have done a great deal of good; and, in the third place, that Turkey would never be able to reassert her rule over Crete. He also gathered that it was the opinion of the hon. Gentleman that the most desirable thing for them to contemplate was that the Concert of Europe should as speedily as possible come to a decision in this matter in order to put an end to the present condition of affairs. ["Hear, hear!"] He rose for the purpose of putting a question to the Government. They had no information, as he understood it, or only the very vaguest information, as to the circumstances of the last two or three days. A London paper appeared to have a correspondent who had sent fuller information than the Government possessed. He did not blame the Government and their lack of information on the matter. It was also impossible for them at present to lay before the House Papers on the subject of Crete, which would require further consideration or take time to print. But one thing, it appeared to him, might be given to Parliament which might go far to satisfy and soothe what was undoubtedly the somewhat ruffled condition of the public mind, and that was the instructions given to our Admiral as to his action in the present crisis. [Cheers.] They wanted to know what the position of the British Squadron there was, and what the position of the Admiral was. [Cheers.] Was he bound to do anything that the Concert of Europe directed him to do, and, if so, who represented the Concert of Europe at Canea, or any other point where action was necessary? [Cheers.] They wished particularly to know what his instructions were. He must be acting under some definite instructions from his own Government, as well as any instructions that might come from the so-called Concert of Europe. ["Hear, hear!"]


If the right hon. Gentleman will put a Question on the Paper to-morrow with regard to the instructions to our Admiral, I will have the precedents looked into and see whether it can be done. But I may inform him that undoubtedly our Admiral is not bound to act against his judgment with the majority. Unanimity among the Admirals is required.


said this incident could not be treated by itself without regard to the whole policy of this country in her dealings with Greece. It had been assumed by three speakers at least in. the Debate that Turkey, if left to herself, would be able to crush Greece. That was not the case. If the Turks were to try by sea to reach Crete with reinforcements they would fail in getting there. Their ships would be torpedoed and sunk, and the destruction of the Turkish power would be all the more rapid. The Greeks believed that the same would be the case with regard to the frontier of Thessaly, and this country was believed by Greece to have twice led the Concert of Europe to prevent the Greeks from obtaining provinces which would otherwise have fallen to them. ["Hear, hear!"] No doubt, as a nation, we were the best friends of Greece in Europe, but it was not thought so by the Greeks, at any rate, as far as the Government was concerned. The future of the Eastern Mediterranean lay with Greece. The feeling of the people of this country was almost unanimously on the Greek side. But he was one who would do much to prevent the forcible partition of the Ottoman Empire. [Cries of"Oh!"] Yes,

for he believed in the danger of war. ["Hear, hear!"] But we ought not to interfere by force against that side which had the whole future of the Eastern Mediterranean Sea at its command. Greece was anxious to be our friend; she was a maritime Power, and would be drawn by associations to desire alliance with us, and free scope should be given to the feeling of the people of this country on behalf of Greece. [Cheers.] The Opposition had been singularly tolerant of the foreign policy of the present Government. Not in the Mediterranean only, but in the Pacific, it had been marked by a great change in the position of the country. The foreign policy of the Government ought to be thoroughly debated on a better occasion than the present, but he could not be silent when the whole aspirations of the Greeks were involved, and felt bound to raise his voice to, if possible, prevent those aspirations from being used as the shuttlecock of party. [Cheers.]

Motion made, and Question put, "That this House do now Adjourn." The House divided:—Ayes, 125; Noes, 243.—(Division List—No. 40—appended.)

The announcement of the figures was received with Ministerial cheers.

Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)
Acland, Rt. Hon. A. H. Dyke Dalziel, James Henry Kay-Shuttleworth, Rt. Hn. Sir U.
Allan, William (Gateshead) Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) Kearley, Hudson E.
Ambrose, Robert (Mayo, W.) Davies, W. Rees-(Pembrokesh.) Kinloch, Sir John George Smyth
Arch, Joseph Davitt, Michael Knox, Edmund Francis Vesey
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry Dillon, John Labouchere, Henry
Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire) Donelan, Captain A. Lambert, George
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Dunn, Sir William Langley, Batty
Barlow, John Emmott Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumblnd.)
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Farquharson, Dr. Robert Leng, Sir John
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Fenwick, Charles Lockwood, Sir Frank (York)
Birrell, Augustine Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) Lough, Thomas
Brigg, John Flynn, James Christopher Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Lyell, Sir Leonard
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Fowler, Matthew (Durham) Macaleese, Daniel
Burns, John Gilhooly, James McDermott, Patrick
Burt, Thomas Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John McEwan, William
Caldwell, James Goddard, Daniel Ford M'Ghee, Richard
Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow) Gold, Charles M'Hugh, Patrick A. (Leitrim)
Cameron, Robert (Durham) Griffith, Ellis J. McKenna, Reginald
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir William Maden, John Henry
Causton, Richard Knight Harrison, Charles Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W. (Yorks.)
Channing, Francis Allston Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- Monk, Charles James
Colville, John Holburn, J. G. Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)
Condon, Thomas Joseph Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Crilly, Daniel Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez Edw. Morley, Rt. Hn. John (Montrose)
Crombie, John William Joicey, Sir James Morton, Edward John Chalmers
Mundella, Rt. Hn. Anthony John Reid, Sir Robert T. Walton, John Lawson
Nussey, Thomas Willans Rickett, J. Compton Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) Wayman, Thomas
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) Wedderburn, Sir William
O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) Robson, William Snowdon Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Roche, Hon. James (East Kerry) Williams, John Carvell (Notts.)
O'Kelly, James Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) Wills, Sir William Henry
Owen, Thomas Schwann, Charles E. Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Palmer, Sir Charles M. (Durham) Smith, Samuel (Flint) Wilson, John (Govan)
Parnell, John Howard Spicer, Albert Woodall, William
Paulton, James Mellor Stanhope, Hon. Philip J. Woods, Samuel
Pickard, Benjamin Strachey, Edward Yoxall, James Henry
Pickersgill, Edward Hare Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Power, Patrick Joseph Tanner, Charles Kearns TELLERS FOR THE AYES, Mr.
Price, Robert John Wallace, Robert (Edinburgh) Thomas Ellis and Mr.
Provand, Andrew Dryburgh Wallace, Robert (Perth) McArthur.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F. Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Goulding, Edward Alfred
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready Graham, Henry Robert
Ascroft, Robert Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Gray, Ernest (West Ham)
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis Cook, Fred Lucas (Lambeth) Green, Walford D. (Wednesb'ry)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)
Baden-Powell, Sir Geo. Smyth Courtney, Rt. Hon. Leonard H. Gretton, John
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Cranborne, Viscount Gull, Sir Cameron
Bailey, James (Walworth) Cripps, Charles Alfred Halsey, Thomas Frederick
Baillie, James E. B. (Inverness) Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord Geo.
Baird, John George Alexander Currie, Sir Donald Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.
Balcarres, Lord Curzon, Rt. Hn. G. N. Lanc. S. W.) Hare, Thomas Leigh
Baldwin, Alfred Curzon, Viscount (Bucks.) Haslett, Sir James Horner
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Mauch'r) Dalbiac, Major Philip Hugh Heath, James
Balfour, Gerald William (Leeds) Dalrymple, Sir Charles Helder, Augustus
Banbury, Frederick George Darling, Charles John Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Hill, Rt. Hn. Lord Arthur (Down)
Barry, A. H. Smith-(Hunts.) Dixon, George Hoare, Samuel (Norwich)
Barry, Francis Tress (Windsor) Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred. Dixon Hobhouse, Henry
Bartley, George C. T. Donkin, Richard Sim Holland, Hon. Lionel Raleigh
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Dorington, Sir John Edward Hopkinson, Alfred
Beach, Rt. Hon. Sir M. H. (Bristol) Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry
Begg, Ferdinand Faithfull Drucker, A. Howell, William Tudor
Bennett, Henry Currie Leigh- Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. Hozier, James Henry Cecil
Bethell, Captain Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Hutton, John (Yorks. N. R.)
Bhownaggree, M. M. Edwards, Gen. Sir James Bevan Isaacson, Frederick Wootton
Biddulph, Michael Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick
Blundell, Colonel Henry Fardell, Thomas George Jessel, Captain Herbert Morton
Bond, Edward Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Johnston, William (Belfast)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r) Johnstone, John H. (Sussex)
Bousfield, William Robert Fielden, Thomas Jolliffe, Hon. H. George
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Finch, George H. Kemp, George
Brookfield, A. Montagu Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Kenrick, William
Brown, Alexander H. Firbank, Joseph Thomas Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William
Bucknill, Thomas Townsend Fisher, William Hayes Kimber, Henry
Burdett-Coutts, W. Fison, Frederick William King, Sir Henry Seymour
Butcher, John George FitzGerald, Sir R. U. Penrose Knowles, Lees
Campbell, James A. Flannery, Fortescue Lafone, Alfred
Carlile, William Walter Fletcher, Sir Henry Laurie, Lieut.-General
Carson, Edward Folkestone, Viscount Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs) Forster Henry William Lecky, William Edward H.
Cavendish, V. C. W.(Derbyshire) Forwood, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur B. Legh, Hon. Thomas W. (Lanc.)
Cayzer, Charles William Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. (Essex)
Cecil, Lord Hugh Fry, Lewis Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine
Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. Galloway, William Johnson Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Bir.) Garfit, William Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverpool)
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r) Gedge, Sydney Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lond.) Lowther, Rt. Hn. James (Kent)
Charrington, Spencer Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans.) Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Chelsea, Viscount Gilliat, John Saunders Lubbook, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Clare, Octavias Leigh Goldsworthy, Major-General Lucas-Shadwell, William
Clarke, Sir Edward (Plymouth) Gordon, John Edward Macartney, W. G. Ellison
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Macdona, John Cumming
Coghill, Douglas Harry Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. G'rg's) Maclean, James Mackenzie
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Goschen, George J. (Sussex) McCalmont, H. L. B. (Cambs.)
MeIver, Sir Lewis Plunkett, Hon. Horace Curzon Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth)
McKillop, James Pollock, Harry Frederick Sutherland, Sir Thomas
Malcolm, Ian Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. Pryce-Jones, Edward Talbot, John G. (Oxford Univ.)
Maple, Sir John Blundell Purvis, Robert Taylor, Francis
Marks, Henry Hananel Rasch, Major Frederic Carne Thorburn, Walter
Martin, Richard Bidduiph Renshaw, Charles Bine Thornton, Percy M.
Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Richardson, Thomas Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Melville, Beresford Valentine Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir Matthew W. Tritton, Charles Ernest
Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. Thomson Valentia, Viscount
Milbank, Powlett Charles John Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye Warkworth, Lord
Mildmay, Francis Bingham Round, James Warr, Augustus Frederick
Milner, Sir Frederick George Russell, Gen. F. S. (Cheltenham) Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras)
Milward, Colonel Victor Russell, Sir George (Berkshire) Webster, Sir R. E. (Isle of Wight)
Monckton, Edward Philip Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E.
Montagu, Hon. J. Scott (Hants.) Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) Wharton, John Lloyd
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos. Myles Williams, Colonel R. Dorset
Morrell, George Herbert Savory, Sir Joseph Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm.)
Morrison, Walter Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Mowbray, Rt. Hon. Sir John Seely, Charles Hilton Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Graham (Bute) Sharpe, William Edward T. Wylie, Alexander
Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew) Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H.
Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Myers, William Henry Simeon, Sir Barrington
Nicol, Donald Ninian Sinclair, Louis (Romford) TELLERS FOR THE NOES, Sir
Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford, Skewes-Cox, Thomas William Walrond and Mr.
Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch) Anstruther.
Pender, James Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Penn, John Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)

Resolutions agreed to.