HC Deb 22 February 1897 vol 46 cc849-52

On the Order for the Second Reading of this Bill—

*SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucester, Forest of Dean)

—who had an Amendment on the Paper to reject the Bill —said he rose on that occasion, at the request of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants, to put before the House the strong objections which they entertained against this Bill and several other railway Bills in progress. There were five railway Bills before the House this Session in which powers were taken with regard to societies which were more or less compulsory either on all classes or on some classes, in the employ of the companies. As to this particular Rill, the society was at present compulsory only on the clerks or salaried officers; but under the Act of which this was an amending Bill, it was possible for the company to make their society compulsory on all their servants. He was informed however, that the Great Eastern Company were prepared to confine the operation of the present Bill to their salaried officers, and in those circumstances it would not be necessary for him to divide the House on this Bill at least. The different Bills had been referred to the Chief Registrar of Friendly Societies, and he understood that that official had already reported on three of them in very strong terms, and those reports would be placed before the committees on the Bills. That being the case and as, necessarily, therefore, the reports of the Chief Registrar would come before the House on the report stage of the Bills and receive full consideration, his objections to the Second Readings would fall to the ground. The Chief Registrar had officially raised against the clause objected to the very points he had been prepared himself to bring forward. In 1889 there were some clauses in a private Bill similar to the clause objected to in the present Bill, and it was then found that there was a difficulty as to the men being heard. The railway servants took the view that they ought not to be prejudicially affected by compulsory clauses of this kind without being heard, and the clauses referred to should be struck out or the servants be given a hearing before the Committee. He was aware of certain facts which had raised a doubt both in 1889 and in 1890, as to whether they could show that they were affected in a way which would give them a locus before the Committee. Even supposing individual servants were able to appear, it was a very invidious thing to throw it upon individual servants of a railway company. It would be far better that some of the societies which represented the railway servants should be allowed to appear on their behalf. In some societies the management was of a very despotic kind, and the fund was really in the hands of the railway company. He understood that as regarded the Bill now before them the Great Eastern had undertaken to insert words making it clear that this particular Bill only referred to salaried clerks and officers, and although it would still be the case that under their former powers they might include in their compulsory societies all the servants of the company, yet he felt he could not press, on the present Bill, an objection going to the original legislation already sanctioned by the House. Therefore, he should accept the proposal of the company. Perhaps it might be convenient if the Chairman of Committees would tell the House what was the usual course in regard to these Bills, as the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants were very anxious both that the reports of the Registrar General of Friendly Societies should be fully brought before the Committee, and that, if possible, they should be given some representation before the Select Committee.

*THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS (Mr. J. W. LOWTHER,) Cumberland, Penrith

said that, as regarded the Bill now before the House, he was prepared to undertake that the reports to which the right hon. Baronet had referred should come before the Committee before whom the Bill went. If by any chance the Bill was unopposed then it would come before him, and he should most thoroughly go into the report from the Registrar General. He should also have to inform the House how that report had been dealt with, and therefore the House would be seized of whatever was done, whether by himself or by the Select Committee. The right hon. Baronet might therefore rest assured that the matter would come clearly before the Committee. He was informed by the Great Eastern Railway Company that in this Bill they never intended for a moment to go beyond the class of servants who were dealt with in the Act of 1878.

*SIR C. DILKE

said that was so, but he was informed that the provisions of that Act, although they had been used only for salaried servants, might be extended so as to include all classes of servants.

*THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS

said the company did not intend, in this Bill, to apply its provisions to any other class of servants but those to which the provisions of the Act of 1878 had been made applicable. They had undertaken, in the enacting part of clause 34, to insert words which would make it perfectly clear that the clause was only for salaried officers and salaried servants. The other question as regarded the locus standi of particular bodies did not arise on this matter.

Bill read a Second time, and committed.