HC Deb 04 August 1897 vol 52 cc360-3
* MR. WILLIAM JONES (Carnarvon, Arfon)

called attention to the position of the Board of Trade with reference to the Penrhyn Quarry dispute. The House would recollect that at the beginning of the Session he drew attention to the fact that the men had placed themselves unreservedly in the hands of the Board of Trade. Lord Penrhyn, however, had steadily refused to permit any outside intervention in the matter, and therefore the situation practically remained unchanged. There had been two conferences between Lord Penrhyn and, the men; but these had proved quite abortive. He would ask whether it was possible for the parties to arrive at an understanding unless the spirit of fairness and good temper prevailed during their negotiations. At one of the conferences the head manager of the quarry shouted across the table to the leaders of the men, "It is a lie." He knew that the manager was the more wealthy, but he ventured to say that the leaders of the men were the more gentlemanly. ["Hear, hear!"] It was the question of management that was preventing a true and equitable solution of the difficulty being arrived at. Lord Penrhyn had protested against any form of combination that sought to interfere with the management. The leaders of the men and the men themselves in mass meetings had persisted in maintaining that interference with the management was not at all implied in the right of combination for which they stood. The combination they asked for was of the most modest kind, being merely in order to bring the grievances of their fellow-workmen before the management. "The difference as regards words," said The Times correspondent, who had taken upon himself to be the mouthpiece of Lord Penrhyn, "may appear small, but in fact is deep and serious." Now, for 11 months this dispute had, gone on, and the behaviour of the men during that time had been most exemplary. [Ministerial cheers.] Mr. Justice Ridley, in addressing the grand jury at Carnarvon Assizes on June 4, stated that the absence of crime in the counties he had already visited was a cause for congratulating them. "It is more so still," he continued, in Carnarvonshire, where for several months hundreds if not thousands, of workmen have been out of work. I had hoped to be able to congratulate the jury on the termination of this dispute, into the merits of which I will not enter and of which I am not competent to speak. But, although it has continued so for many months, it is a pleasure to see there is not a trace or sign of it on the calendar. ["Hear, hear!"] That was owing to the high moral and religious character of these men. But there might be a strain on that moral character which would lead to serious consequences. He hoped not. It was sad to contemplate the stupendous one-man power which seemed to brood over and control the destinies of thousands of families among the most peace-loving and law-abiding citizens in the realm. The men were firm enough and received support enough to prolong the struggle for an indefinite period. According to The Times correspondent, who was in the secret of Lord Penrhyn and his management, "Lord Penrhyn holds it must be fought out to the bitter end." In the interest of home life and the community at large in North Wales, was it wise to let this continue? He appealed to the President of the Board of Trade, who had behaved most courteously and kindly, whether the Government could not induce Lord Penrhyn to accept a conciliator, or, better still, an arbitrator who would hold a just balance and endeavour to arrive at a real solution of the difficulty and bring an unhappy dispute to a peaceful close. A better and nobler work could not possibly mark what ought to be the true and inward spirit of the Diamond Jubilee of the Queen. [Cheers.]

THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE (Mr. C. T. RITCHIE,) Croydon

bore testimony to the moderate and conciliatory spirit which the hon. Member had invariably shown in his treatment of this question. The history of the dispute was well known to the House, and it was also known that the Board of Trade had endeavoured to bring about a meeting in order to arrive at a settlement. Lord Penrhyn, in the exorcise of what undoubtedly was his just rights, declined to countenance any outside interference on the ground that it was a matter which affected him and his workpeople only. He was glad to say that this had not been the attitude taken up generally with regard to disputes between employer and employed. Since the passing of the Conciliation Act there had been a large number of applications for the intervention of the Board of Trade both from employers and employed, and he was glad to think that the action of the Board of Trade had been, with one or two exceptions, of such a character as to secure the settlement of disputes on terms satisfactory to both, parties. He confessed that he had been in great hopes, that the meetings which were held between Lord Penrhyn and his workmen might result in a satisfactory settlement, but unfortunately this had not been the case. Without discussing the points in dispute which led to the non-success of these meetings, he thought that Lord Penrhyn did make certain concessions of a valuable character to the men. Lord Penrhyn was not able to meet the men entirely, and his impression was that if there had been some fair-minded person present, or some conciliator, the result of these meetings would have been more satisfactory than they were. Lord Penrhyn stated that he was prepared to consider points other than the one great point of the interference with the management of the quarry. On the other hand the men repudiated any intention to interfere with the management; and this being the view of the two parties to the quarrel there was now some ground for hoping that some arrangements or agreement might be arrived at. It was impossible for the Board of Trade to propose to Lord Penrhyn, or to his workmen, anything in the nature of intervention at the present moment. Any suggestion which should lead to successful intervention, either by way of conciliation or arbitration, must come from the two parties themselves. He did not think that any good would result from any suggestion coming from him to Lord Penrhyn in favour of intervention, but he believed that if intervention were sought for by the two parties there was every ground for hoping that the settlement of the dispute might be arrived at. As far as he was personally concerned he would welcome with the greatest cordiality any step which might be taken in that direction on the part of Lord Penrhyn and his workmen.