HC Deb 21 May 1896 vol 41 cc68-70
MR. JOHN ELLIS (Nottingham, Rushcliffe)

I beg to ask the First Commissioner of Works, whether he can inform the House who is responsible for the care and custody of Westminster Hall; and, having regard to what took place there during the afternoon of Tuesday last, whether he can assure the House that steps have been taken which will effectually prevent any similar occurrence?

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

I beg to ask the First Commissioner of Works, by whom, and in virtue of what authority, permission was given to certain persons to set up tables in Westminster Hall and to array thereupon papers of the nature of Petitions or appeals; and whether any direction was given to the Commissioners of Police to refrain in this instance from carrying out the Order of this House to prevent all disorder in Westminster Hall, and all annoyance therein or thereabouts?

MR. DILLON

Before the right hon. Gentleman answers the Questions, I should like to ask him to state whether Westminster Hall will be open to all people who desire to present monster petitions and to canvass Members of this House in their support?

MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS

With the consent of my hon. Friend the Member for King's Lynn I propose to answer his Question at the same time. The permission alluded to was given by the Secretary to the Office of Works, in virtue of a Treasury Minute dated May 9, 1884. Directions were given by the Home Office to the police to admit a limited number of ladies to whom signed orders had been given. The custody of Westminster Hall was vested by Letters Patent, in 1843, in Mr. Charles Gore, the then Junior Commissioner of Woods and Works, and held by him up to 1884. By Treasury Minute dated May 9, 1884, the Office of Works was informed that by Her Majesty's pleasure the keepership was vested in the Office of Works, and that the Secretary for the time being of that Department was appointed to perform the duties in question. It has been the practice since for the Secretary for the time being, in the exercise of his functions and at his discretion, to grant all permission for the use of the hall. I have arranged that in future all requests for the use of Westminster Hall shall be submitted to and decided by the First Commissioner.

MR. DILLON

Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly answer my Question? Will the same permission be given to other bodies who desire to present monster petitions?

MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS

I thought my answer covered the Question of the hon. Member. ["Hear, hear!"] As the hon. Member is aware, I refused the responsibility of the admission of these ladies the other day, and I cannot say, until an application of that sort is presented to me, what action I shall take.

MR. DILLON

I venture to repeat the Question, because it would be a very serious thing if Members of the Government should discriminate—

*MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! I would further point out that the Question of the hon. Member does not distinctly arise out of the Questions which are upon the Paper.

MR. J. ELLIS

May I ask the First Commissioner of Works whether we may understand that his discretion will be exercised either for or against everything?

MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS

was understood to say that he had already answered a similar Question.

MR. JAMES LOWTHER (Kent, Thanet)

asked whether care would be taken hereafter that the power would be vested in the hands of a person responsible to Parliament?

MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS

That was the gist of my answer.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

asked whether the Sessional Order of the House would be respected?

MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS

That is not for me to answer, rather the Home Office; but, of course, it will be.

MR. DILLON

gave notice that he would call attention to the matter in Supply.

MR. J. W. LOGAN (Leicester, Harborough)

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether there is now any reason why Westminster Hall should not be thrown open to the public as formerly?

MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS

The hall was closed to the public at the request of the Home Office in 1884. In 1894 the restrictions were modified, and the public admitted on Saturdays between the hours of 10 and 4 o'clock. I will consult with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary whether further facilities to the public can now be granted.