ARMY ESTIMATES, 1896–7. (Hansard, 22 June 1896)

SIR HENRY FLETCHER (Sussex, Mid)
took the opportunity to thank the Secretary of State for War for the way in which he had met the wishes of the Volunteers with respect to the Capitation Grant.

§ MR. J. P. FARRELL (Cavan, W.)
asked for some definite explanation as to the sources from which the Army in Ireland was supplied with forage? He urged that a Return ought to be supplied of the Irish contractors who were employed. That would enable Members to some extent to trace the sources of the supply of forage. Although Ireland was overtaxed to the extent of £2,000,000, money which the Government ought to spend in that country was not spent there, but went into the pockets of contractors in England. Irishmen did not want the British Army of occupation, and were taxed for its maintenance, and they obtained no return for the taxes which were exacted from them.

§ DR. TANNER
said that he had also raised the question. He had given three cases in connection with barracks in Ireland, where local purveyors of forage had no employment because the forage was imported from abroad. As to provisions, there was a point which he had raised eight years ago—namely, how it came to pass that so many of the Army canteens were supplied by the Army and Navy Stores, at the instance of hon. Members who were shareholders 1654 in those stores? The interests of the poor local purveyors ought to be considered in these matters.

§ MR. KILBRIDE
said it could not be denied that Ireland produced hay of a quality superior to a great deal, if not all, of the foreign hay brought into the country. The only reason why contractors used foreign hay at certain times of the year was that they could get it cheaper than Irish hay. Everyone knew that contractors tried to make the articles they supplied as weighty as possible, and he knew that in some cases the hay supplied to the cavalry had been watered in the course of transit. Everybody knew that watered hay when stored heated and became injurious to horses, and, consequently, a large proportion of cavalry horses got wrong in their wind. He maintained that the home grown article ought to have a preference over hay grown in Belgium or Holland. The same argument held good with regard to Irish oats. Oats grown in County Dublin or Kildare were heavier per bushel than foreign oats, and the War Office should direct officers to see that Russian oats or foreign hay were up to standard. A great deal of the foreign oats given to the cavalry was little more than chaff.

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (Mr. POWELL-WILLIAMS,), Birmingham, S.
in answer to hon. Members, said a suggestion was now under consideration of a Committee upstairs to publish the name of every contractor who entered into a contract with the War and Admiralty Departments. As regarded the question of the purchase of forage and meat in Ireland, as he had formerly informed the House, the Department made every possible effort to buy both meat and forage locally both in England and Ireland, and they were not without hope that that system would become so universal that very little meat of foreign origin would require to be purchased hereafter. It was extremely difficult, in dealing with dead meat, to be certain what its origin was. No doubt it was easier to ascertain where meat in Ireland came from than in England. Still, there was considerable difficulty; but he repeated his assurance that, price and all things equal, the War Department would 1655 endeavour to avail themselves of local sources of supply.

§ DR. TANNER
What about the Army and Navy Stores?

MR. POWELL-WILLIAMS
said the hon. Gentleman ought to know that the purchases for the canteen were made, not by the War Department, but by those who managed the canteen, and those persons had as much right as the hon. Member to get their supplies from whatever place they thought fit.

§ DR. TANNER
I thank the right hon. Gentleman.

§ MR. HUBERT DUNCOMBE (Cumberland, Egremont)
claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

§ * MR. SPEAKER
withheld his assent, and declined then to put that Question.

§ MR. DALY
said he did not propose to detain the House for many moments. When the Speaker was not in the Chair the hon. Member for South Birmingham was not at all explicit, and, therefore, it was the duty of Irish Members to endeavour to get the oats that were consumed by the horses of the Army in Ireland purchased in Ireland. It was the fact that American oats were supplied, while much better Irish oats could be supplied. It was the same with hay. Three-quarters of a million sterling was——

§ * MR. SPEAKER
I must remind the hon. Gentleman that all these statements have been made by a previous speaker.

§ MR. DALY
said that all he desired to enforce was that the supplies for the Army in Ireland should be purchased in Ireland.