HC Deb 30 July 1896 vol 43 cc1125-7

In the application of this Act to Ireland a reference to the Local Government Board for Ireland shall he substituted for a reference to the Local Government Board.

MR. CHAPLIN moved after the word "Board," to add and a reference to the council of a county shall he construed in an urban sanitary district under the Public Health (Ireland) Act, 1878, as a reference to the urban sanitary authority, and elsewhere as a reference to the grand jury.

Amendment agreed to.

*MR. TULLY moved to add a proviso at the end of the clause to the effect that in Ireland power should be given to the Grand Jury or County Surveyor to take proceedings before the magistrates against the owners of locomotives for damage done to roads. He said that at present there was no power to proceed against the owners of those engines, no matter what damage they caused, and this he considered a great hardship, inasmuch as the county cess, by which the roads were maintained, was paid exclusively by the occupiers and tenant farmers.


pointed out that under Section 3 the local authorities in Ireland would have ample power to make bye-laws regulating the traffic of motor engines and imposing a penalty of £10 for their infringement. The words were therefore entirely unnecessary.


If they are unnecessary, that is no reason why there should be any harm in adopting them. [Laughter.]


thought this matter should be placed in more popular hands than the Grand Jury. He suggested the Baronial Sessions.


pointed out that the House had already agreed that the Grand Jury should be the county authority to act in the matter.


said he thought there was a good deal of force in the Amendment. The Grand Jury lapsed after every Assize; there was no permanent existence with them, and the only county authority that could at present interfere in the action of presentment with regard to any damage of the kind referred to, was the County Surveyor. He could not see that the Amendment would in anyway unfavourably affect the Bill, whilst at the same time he thought it would safeguard the interests of the ratepayers. Besides, he thought the Amendment would be the easiest way of meeting the object in view.


said the words which had been proposed might not be entirely satisfactory, though he thought the County Surveyor in Ireland was the authority who should be empowered to act in the matter, and he would suggest that the Government should look into the point, and that, on that promise, the Amendment should be withdrawn.


said that Section 1 and Section 3 would enable the Grand Juries to make bye-laws prohibiting the use of those engines on certain conditions, and inflicting a fine of £10 in case of breach of those conditions. He thought that that would afford ample protection to the public. With regard to the proposal respecting the County Surveyor, he thought it would be very undesirable, for several reasons, to confer on that official the power, on his own motion, to institute proceedings for damage. There might be difficulty in recovering the costs of an action against him or the Grand Jury should it be unsuccesful. But there would be nothing to prevent the Grand Jury from providing in their bye-laws that he should have power to sue in their name, in certain cases, to recover the penalties.

Amendment negatived; clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

MR. CHAPLIN moved "That the Bill be re-committed."


would like to know what it was proposed to do with regard to bridges in non-county boroughs. ["Order, order!"]


said the Government thought it most convenient that the County councils should make bye-laws.

Ordered, That the Bill be re-committed to a Committee of the whole House in respect of a new Clause (Excise Duty), and of an Amendment to the Clause (Penalties), added on Consideration, as amended.—(Mr. Chaplin.)

Bill considered in Committee.

[Mr. J. W. LOWTHER, CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS, in the Chair.]


brought up the following new Clause, which was read a First time:—