RELIEF FROM LAND TAX OF POOR BENEFICES.

HC Deb 14 July 1896 vol 42 cc1488-92

"If the incumbent of any ecclesiastical benefice (1) applies within two years after the passing of this Act to the Commissioners of Inland Revenue and satisfies them that the aggregate value of his benefice (2), estimated according to the rules and regulations of the Acts relating to the income tax, does not exceed one hundred and sixty pounds a year, and that part of that value arises from land subject to land tax, whether actually assessed thereto or not, the Commissioners shall exonerate that land in like manner as if the land tax charged thereon had been redeemed: Provided that the Commissioners, before granting such exoneration, may satisfy themselves that the land tax in the land tax parish comprising such land is equally assessed upon the present value of the land in the parish subject to land tax, and for that purpose the surveyors of taxes shall, with a view to obtaining a correct assessment, have the like right under the Land Tax Acts as if he were assessed to the land tax.

He said that this clause would naturally have been moved on the Committee stage, but as the hon. Member was late, and in order to suit the convenience of the Committee, he withdrew it. In so doing he informed the Chancellor of the Exchequer and everybody else whom he could that he intended to move it at the present stage. He certainly understood his right hon. Friend to say that the Government were prepared to accept it.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EX-CHEQUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS BEACH,) Bristol, W.

dissented.

MR. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

said that was what he understood. Since then he had been informed that certain words which were used by the Chancellor of the Exchequer were misconstrued by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Monmouth, and that, owing to that, the Chancellor of the Exchequer felt he would not be acting strictly in accordance with, at all events, the understanding come to if he accepted the clause on the present occasion. He confessed to being exceedingly disappointed at this state of affairs, and he thought there would be very considerable disappointment in the country that a clause which would have conferred a small boon upon a very deserving and hardworking class could not have been pressed owing to that mistake. But, of course, he recognised that if the Government would not accept it, it was of no use his pressing it. He recognised that if the Government could not accept the Amendment it was of no earthly use for him to press it, and there were two additional reasons for his not doing so—that the sum involved was a small one, the proposed relief amounting to only £2,300 a year, and, secondly, that all Church people, he was sorry to say, were not agreed as to its policy. Under the circumstances, though he regretted he was not enabled to press the new clause, he should formally move it to put himself in order, merely adding that he trusted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be able to hold out some hope that next year something would be done to relieve the clergy, who were taxed most heavily and unfairly. [Cheers.]

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W)

said he understood that when they were making arrangements for passing the Bill through Committee certain new clauses, of which this was one, would not be pressed, and that understanding did assist in passing the Bill in a moderate time. Under those circumstances, he felt quite sure, the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not feel at liberty to depart from the understanding arrived at.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS BEACH,) Bristol, W.

said he was afraid that there was more than one misunderstanding on the matter. He did not intend the other night to convey to the right hon. Gentleman opposite anything more that that his hon. Friend had informed him that it was not his intention to move the clause in Committee, and he certainly did not convey to his hon. Friend any promise whatever to support it on Report. The clause, undoubtedly, related to a class which at the present moment was very heavily pressed by taxation. [Cheers.] He was not satisfied, however, that this clause was the best way in which the question could be dealt with, but he would undertake to examine into the matter more thoroughly before next year, bearing in mind that the proposals in the Bill with regard to the Land Tax would certainly prove to be a considerable boon to the clergy as well as to other Land Tax payers. ["Hear, hear!"] It would be his wish, if possible, to make some proposal to Parliament which would improve the position of the clergy in respect to taxation. [Cheers.] He trusted that in the circumstances the clause would not be pressed.

VISCOUNT CRANBORNE (Rochester)

could not say how much he regretted the decision at which the Government had arrived. ["Hear, hear!"] Considering the history of the present Session, he thought something was due from the Government to the request of Churchmen in this matter. He was concerned privately in the arrangement come to on Thursday night, and felt bound, therefore, to say a word or two to the House. The hon. Member for Tunbridge suggested to him that the clause then under discussion should be postponed until the Report stage, and his own opinion was that such an arrangement would be justifiable if the Government entered into an engagement to accept the clause on Report. He was under very great obligations to his friends in the country, whom he had assured that he saw every prospect of the clause being accepted, though he had no authority to pledge Her Majesty's Government at that time. His hon. Friend informed him that the Government had undertaken to accept the clause—mistakenly, as it turned out; and, speaking, as he had the right to do, on behalf of a certain number of his hon. Friends in whose names the clause had been placed on the Paper, he said that it would be proper for the clause to be withdrawn and moved on Report. Unfortunately, a misunderstanding arose with the Leader of the Opposition. Apparently, there was some kind of an arrangement made with the right hon. Gentleman, which, although the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not mean it, was interpreted by him as meaning that the clause would not be moved on Report. It was a mistake on the part of the Leader of the Opposition, who had no right to come to that conclusion. As to whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer should have been so ready to make a concession to the other side, that was a question on which he should like to reserve his opinion. As it was, the clergy of the country, who had been excluded from the Rating Bill, would have to wait until next year, when this Act might be extended to them. He understood that the Leader of the Opposition spoke the other night in very high terms of the clergy, and reprobated the Government for not having included them in the Rating Bill. The right hon. Gentleman said that the clergy were admirable people, and gave more of their substance, according to their means, than other persons. He very much regretted the decision arrived at, but desired to extend his respectful congratulations to hon. Gentlemen opposite for the great influence they had exercised on the Government business during the present Session. [Cheers and counter cheers.] Three or four, or perhaps a few more, Welsh Members had, by their ability and persistence, for which he respectfully complimented them, succeeded in producing a very profound impression upon Her Majesty's Government, and he wanted to compliment the Leader of the Opposition also, although he imagined the right hon Gentleman was under exactly the same control as Her Majesty's Government. [Laughter.] He trusted the decision arrived at would not form a precedent for other decisions. The matter was a very small one, but he hoped that when they had under consideration some important subjects relating to the Church and Church interests, Her Majesty's Government would see their way to consider the interests of their friends more than the saving of two or three hours time of the House of Commons—[cheers]—and would not be ready to make concessions without entering into very full explanations with their friends first. [Renewed cheers.]

*THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EX-CHEQUER

explained that he never asked the hon. Member for Tunbridge to postpone this matter to the Report stage. His hon. Friend said he intended to postpone it until Report, and he conveyed that intention to the Leader of the Opposition. As to whether this was a concession to the Opposition or not he could only say that if his hon. Friend had moved the clause in Committee he could not have accepted it; because he could only have treated it in the same way as a clause which he had himself proposed, and had withdrawn in deference to objections that were made to it, in order to secure the conclusion of the proceedings in Committee.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON (Shropshire, Oswestry)

thanked the Government for the line they had taken in this matter. [Laughter and cheers.] Speaking as a Churchman, he was wholly opposed to the Amendment. There was a very distinct difference of opinion amongst Churchmen in the country and in the House of Commons as to the policy or the propriety of accepting State aid or money from the taxes towards the clergy. [Cheers.] He protested against the speech of his noble Friend.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 11,—