CLASS IV. (Hansard, 7 August 1896)

§ THE LORD ADVOCATE
said the educational year had been uneventful in Scotland in contradistinction to that in England, but it had been a year of steady progress. The grant asked for was £1,131,000, showing an increase over last year of £39,835, which was accounted for in this way: £18,000 odd was for day scholars and £10,000 odd for evening scholars, and £6,265 for fee grants. The total amount of the fee grant for the year was £303,609. The method of calculating the grant had been changed. It had now been placed on the basis the Scotch Education Department had always contended for of 10s. per head on the attendance, instead of, as hitherto, the 11–80ths of the sum allowed to England. Pending any further settlement of the pension question, an increase of £260 had been made in the Estimate for pensions, giving £4,885 in all for that purpose. Another feature of novelty was the grant for agricultural education, which, at the beginning of the financial year, was transferred to the Education Department, and upon that Vote there was an increase of £300. The attendance had increased by about 9,500. The total attendance was 587,931, there being a gratifying increase in the percentage of the older children. There had been enormous progress in the evening schools, the figures for 1895 being 45,487, as compared with 11,363 in 1890, 13,513 in 1891, 16,007 in 1892, 19,575 in 1893, and 32,934 in 1894. [Cheers.] In regard to free education, 97 '09 of the scholars were free, leaving only 2.91 who paid fees. Another matter in which there was a very satisfactory result was the question of the leaving certificates, in regard to which there had also been a very great increase, the total being 15,700 this year, as against 13,000 last year. He might mention that schemes had been 168 received and approved of for all the burgh and county committees for the year 1895–96, and a new minute had been approved of by Parliament, under which the new committees were being elected to submit schemes for the present financial year. The chief feature of difference between that and the older minute was that, in order to induce local authorities to hand over the amount dealt with by them, there was a proposal to give them additional representation on the Committees.

§ MR. J. M. WHITE (Forfarshire)
moved to report progress on the ground that, as other business had to be taken at 11 o' clock, there was no time adequately to discuss such an important subject as Scotch education, to which they might give an hour the following day.

§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY
agreed to this proposal on the condition that certain other business should have precedence over the discussion on this Vote.

§ SIR W. HARCOURT
considered the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleman a fair one.

§ MR. CALDWELL
complained that the Scotch Members had hardly been fairly treated in this matter. It was understood that they were to get a reasonable time for the discussion of Scotch Votes. As a matter of fact, the Votes did not come on until nine o' clock that night, so that they had only had two hours for discussion. He believed that they had only had a day altogether for the consideration of Scotch Estimates, and, at any rate, they had not had anything like a fair proportion of the time of the House for the discussion of Scotch business. Then, again, only the previous night, in order that hon. Members might get away at a quarter past two that morning, they were asked to pass, without discussion, 11 Votes.

§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY
No, it was seven.

§ MR. CALDWELL
said they had had the opportunity of discussing two Votes, which he did not think they had discussed at any inordinate length. He recognised that the arrangement which had been entered into must be carried out, but he hoped the First Lord might arrange that they should have some 169 little time on Monday, say, for the purpose of making some remarks on this Education Vote.

MR. MCLEOD
said he did not think that they ought to be asked to take such an important Vote as this within 10 minutes of the hour when it was arranged the other business should be taken. He thought the right hon. Gentleman might fairly congratulate himself on the progress made to-day, because he got Votes which made up a very substantial amount indeed. When he kept in view the fact that so far he had only allowed one day and some three hours for the consideration of the Scotch Estimates, he really thought he should consent to the Motion to report progress.

§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY
said he could hardly make any complaint of the length of time taken up on Scotch Estimates, but the Leader of the Opposition had expressed the opinion that the offer he had made was a very fair one. They had got Monday up to 10 o'clock for Supply. They had got, if the House did not insist on dividing on all the unconsidered Votes, from 10 o'clock on Monday until one o'clock, or whatever hour the House chose, for Report of Supply, and they had until 10 o'clock on Tuesday for further Report of Supply. Therefore there might be many Votes which were never considered in Committee which might receive adequate discussion on Report. He would suggest that to-night hon. Gentlemen might give them the following Votes:—Class 2, No. 18, No. 22, No. 25, and No. 26; Class 3—No. 10; Class 4—No. 4, and No. 5; Class 6—

§ SIR W. HARCOURT
I think you have got enough.

§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY
Very well.

MR. MCLEOD
protested against this system of taking Votes. Many hon. Members had gone home under the impression that the whole of the night would be occupied with the Scotch Votes. But of the Votes mentioned by the Leader of the House that for the salaries and expenses of the House of Commons raised important questions, and he hoped it would not be taken to-night.

§ MR. DALZIEL
said he and his friends were anxious to meet as far as 170 possible the reasonable demands made by the Leader of the House, but at the same time it was necessary to enforce the just right of Members to discuss Supply. The stress of public business was so great that last night they passed seven Votes without a word of discussion, and now they were asked to pass some 10 or 12 more in a like manner. He hoped the right hon. Gentleman would not take any Vote that was seriously objected to.

§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY
said he had not the least desire to press Votes which hon. Members had conscientious scruples to passing, without discussion.